Comments on: The Rodale Institute’s 30-Year Farming Systems Trial Report http://permaculture.org.au/2011/10/13/the-rodale-institutes-30-year-farming-systems-trial-report/ Permaculture News, Commentary and Worldwide Projects. Wed, 23 May 2012 06:53:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Nikola http://permaculture.org.au/2011/10/13/the-rodale-institutes-30-year-farming-systems-trial-report/#comment-277237 Nikola Sun, 04 Mar 2012 10:19:51 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=6348#comment-277237 Craig, I only recently encountered the FST study report. I was wondering about the study design, in particular that they rotated 7 crops in 8 years on the organic side, but only 2 crops in 2 years on the conventional side. Now clearly the latter represents conventional farming as it's usually done today, but someone could argue about the possible performance of the conventional side if crop rotation was more frequent or equal to the organic side. Now, I'm just a Permaculture enthusiast with no scientific background except a PDC, so I would like to hear your opinion on this. Thanks! Craig, I only recently encountered the FST study report. I was wondering about the study design, in particular that they rotated 7 crops in 8 years on the organic side, but only 2 crops in 2 years on the conventional side. Now clearly the latter represents conventional farming as it’s usually done today, but someone could argue about the possible performance of the conventional side if crop rotation was more frequent or equal to the organic side.
Now, I’m just a Permaculture enthusiast with no scientific background except a PDC, so I would like to hear your opinion on this. Thanks!

]]> By: Deep Green Greenie http://permaculture.org.au/2011/10/13/the-rodale-institutes-30-year-farming-systems-trial-report/#comment-220008 Deep Green Greenie Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:32:48 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=6348#comment-220008 Long-running Iowa Experiment Shows Organic Farming is Profitable at http://www.extension.org/pages/61609/long-running-iowa-experiment-shows-organic-farming-is-profitable and http://www.leopold.iastate.edu/pubs-and-papers/2011-11-ltar-experiment Long-running Iowa Experiment Shows Organic Farming is Profitable at http://www.extension.org/pages/61609/long-running-iowa-experiment-shows-organic-farming-is-profitable and http://www.leopold.iastate.edu/pubs-and-papers/2011-11-ltar-experiment

]]> By: Chris McLeod http://permaculture.org.au/2011/10/13/the-rodale-institutes-30-year-farming-systems-trial-report/#comment-206562 Chris McLeod Mon, 24 Oct 2011 08:23:45 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=6348#comment-206562 Hi Craig, Thanks for the link it was most informative. Your comment brought to mind two further issues: 1) The fruit grown here is often smaller, but far more intensively flavoured (which I prefer) than store brought produce. I suspect that this has something to do with the balance between plant matter and water that you mentioned. I'm aware that many commercial orchardists flood their orchards with water prior to picking in order to increase the weight of the fruit because they are paid by weight rather than quality or taste; and 2) When you wrote in your comment about exchanges with the plants root systems, it started me thinking about how the fruit trees here tend to suffer the most problems within the first year or two whilst they are establishing. The longer they are established in organic soils, the hardier they become. Curly leaf has been a bit of a problem here this year due to the extreme wet weather, but the older nectarines and peaches tend to be a lot hardier than the more recently planted trees. Regards Chris Hi Craig,

Thanks for the link it was most informative. Your comment brought to mind two further issues:

1) The fruit grown here is often smaller, but far more intensively flavoured (which I prefer) than store brought produce. I suspect that this has something to do with the balance between plant matter and water that you mentioned. I’m aware that many commercial orchardists flood their orchards with water prior to picking in order to increase the weight of the fruit because they are paid by weight rather than quality or taste; and

2) When you wrote in your comment about exchanges with the plants root systems, it started me thinking about how the fruit trees here tend to suffer the most problems within the first year or two whilst they are establishing. The longer they are established in organic soils, the hardier they become. Curly leaf has been a bit of a problem here this year due to the extreme wet weather, but the older nectarines and peaches tend to be a lot hardier than the more recently planted trees.

Regards

Chris

]]> By: Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor http://permaculture.org.au/2011/10/13/the-rodale-institutes-30-year-farming-systems-trial-report/#comment-206364 Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor Sun, 23 Oct 2011 19:49:32 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=6348#comment-206364 Chris - when I studied organic biological agriculture, part of the studies looked at differences between conventional produce and those produced with living soils. Because plants are, in simplistic terms, when it comes to water, basically 'pumps' (pumping water up from below), when they have water-soluble fertiliser they suck it up, grow rapidly and 'look' great, but the differences in nutrition are quite striking. Conventional plants have more water, and less dry matter. Conventional produce thus rots quicker. How often do we get frustrated by store bought produce that rots before it's even ripened? Produce from living soils produce, tomatoes, for example, which you can put on a shelf, and instead of rotting, they'll simply dry and shrivel up over time. Plants that are instead fed a balanced diet through symbiotic exchanges between the plant's roots and the micro-organisms that surround them, end up getting much more than just NPK, but also trace elements the plants (and we!) need for health. This makes the natural defences of plants much stronger, eliminating a great deal of 'pest' problems, and when we eat these healthy 'broad spectrum' nutrient bombs, we also receive the gift of strong immune systems. This should interest: http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/13/chemical-based-farming-systems-robbing-us-of-nutrients/ If the world persists with its industrial agricultural mindset, and the GMOs born of it, I think they'll have to design a human capable of eating this crap without getting sick.... Chris – when I studied organic biological agriculture, part of the studies looked at differences between conventional produce and those produced with living soils. Because plants are, in simplistic terms, when it comes to water, basically ‘pumps’ (pumping water up from below), when they have water-soluble fertiliser they suck it up, grow rapidly and ‘look’ great, but the differences in nutrition are quite striking. Conventional plants have more water, and less dry matter. Conventional produce thus rots quicker. How often do we get frustrated by store bought produce that rots before it’s even ripened? Produce from living soils produce, tomatoes, for example, which you can put on a shelf, and instead of rotting, they’ll simply dry and shrivel up over time. Plants that are instead fed a balanced diet through symbiotic exchanges between the plant’s roots and the micro-organisms that surround them, end up getting much more than just NPK, but also trace elements the plants (and we!) need for health. This makes the natural defences of plants much stronger, eliminating a great deal of ‘pest’ problems, and when we eat these healthy ‘broad spectrum’ nutrient bombs, we also receive the gift of strong immune systems.

This should interest:

http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/13/chemical-based-farming-systems-robbing-us-of-nutrients/

If the world persists with its industrial agricultural mindset, and the GMOs born of it, I think they’ll have to design a human capable of eating this crap without getting sick….

]]> By: Chris McLeod http://permaculture.org.au/2011/10/13/the-rodale-institutes-30-year-farming-systems-trial-report/#comment-203030 Chris McLeod Sun, 16 Oct 2011 07:47:39 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=6348#comment-203030 Hi Craig, I agree with your comments. THE NPK issue is particularly interesting because as I'm producing more and more food here, I can see and taste the difference between the stuff that grows here and store purchased fruit and veg. The really interesting thing is that the greens here have thicker and tastier leaves, than shop purchased veg. Plus the mention of drought years is true, with soils high in organic matter there is less shock on the fruit trees. Regards Chris Hi Craig,

I agree with your comments. THE NPK issue is particularly interesting because as I’m producing more and more food here, I can see and taste the difference between the stuff that grows here and store purchased fruit and veg. The really interesting thing is that the greens here have thicker and tastier leaves, than shop purchased veg. Plus the mention of drought years is true, with soils high in organic matter there is less shock on the fruit trees.

Regards

Chris

]]> By: Adam T http://permaculture.org.au/2011/10/13/the-rodale-institutes-30-year-farming-systems-trial-report/#comment-202369 Adam T Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:52:55 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=6348#comment-202369 This report is truly the end of unsustainable agriculture. Sustainability ensures our long term survival and is the priority, so its a plus that organic farming also provides healthier food and a better environment. This report is truly the end of unsustainable agriculture. Sustainability ensures our long term survival and is the priority, so its a plus that organic farming also provides healthier food and a better environment.

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