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	<title>Comments on: Permaculture “Your Way To Sustainable Living”</title>
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		<title>By: Øyvind Holmstad</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/08/12/permaculture-your-way-to-sustainable-living/#comment-51654</link>
		<dc:creator>Øyvind Holmstad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Aug 2010 07:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=3707#comment-51654</guid>
		<description>Stephen Hawking&#039;s Warning: Abandon Earth—Or Face Extinction: http://bigthink.com/ideas/21570 

Or implement permaculture, or face extinction!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen Hawking&#8217;s Warning: Abandon Earth—Or Face Extinction: <a href="http://bigthink.com/ideas/21570" rel="nofollow">http://bigthink.com/ideas/21570</a> </p>
<p>Or implement permaculture, or face extinction!</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/08/12/permaculture-your-way-to-sustainable-living/#comment-51644</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Aug 2010 02:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=3707#comment-51644</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your incredible contribution. You are one of my greatest heroes, along with Roger Payne and Jane Goodall. However; I am also curious where you got the information regarding the nutrition of our current food. thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your incredible contribution. You are one of my greatest heroes, along with Roger Payne and Jane Goodall. However; I am also curious where you got the information regarding the nutrition of our current food. thanks</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anssi Välimäki</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/08/12/permaculture-your-way-to-sustainable-living/#comment-51641</link>
		<dc:creator>Anssi Välimäki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 21:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=3707#comment-51641</guid>
		<description>Hello Geoff,
thank you for the great article! Very inspiring, it made me start thinking of ways how to raise awareness about permaculture in our schools (in Finland). 

I would very much appreciate if you could elaborate one thing, namely, what kind of nutritional assumptions is your 2-3% land use estimate based on? 

By &quot;nutritional assumptions&quot; I mean - what kind of food, and how much, we actually need to produce if we are to stay healthy. Determining this is way more tricky than it might seem: 

* Firstly, if we focus primarily on  basic (physiological) nutritional needs, we ultimately need  to consider about sixty or so micro- and macronutrients (actually there are more if we consider e.g. certain short chain saturated fatty acids as separate nutrients that should be obtained from food for optimum health) and tens of antinutrients, pollutants and contaminants present even in organic food.

* Secondly, all the nutrients need to be obtained in appropriate amounts and ratios - and often the problem is actually getting &lt;i&gt;too much&lt;/i&gt; of a certain thing, which then creates a havoc in the body by e.g. messing up the endocrine system (e.g. too much or too little carbohydrates, or goitrogenic foods), or causing inflammation (e.g. fructose), or causing vitamin/mineral deficiency by increased consumption (e.g. foods containing too much fiber or lectins), or overburdening certain internal organs (e.g. too much sugars, or alcohol). And often it is not at all trivial to avoid because of low nutritional density of food..  

* Thirdly, each of us has unique metabolism and unique needs. To give just a couple of examples; some people do fine with &gt;300 grams of starch each day, others would get eventually sick from that amount and would therefore benefit from a more fat based diet. Most people - at least in western countries - would do well to reduce the ingestion of omega-6 fatty acids, which can have adverse effects on health if consumed in disproportionate amounts (easy to do), this also serves as an example of the second point above.

* Fourthly, most (if not all) healthy traditional populations have their food culture based on either starch or (mostly saturated) natural fats as the primary energy source. There are no healthy cultures (that I&#039;m aware of) that are basing their diet primarily on sugars or polyunsaturated fats - this is why the  farther from the equator one gets, the more animal-based diets tend to be - as the fatty acid profile of plants tends to shift from saturated to (poly)unsaturated.

So there is a lot of &quot;nutritional diversity&quot; to be taken into account - various physiological, cultural, genetic, ecological and geographical aspects - and so any attempt to create an unified nutritional model will likely result either in a mess, or a dysfunctional one-size-fits-all approach.

Nevertheless I feel strongly that it would be enormously important and useful - even for permaculture movement in general - to put a lot of thought into this very aspect - &lt;b&gt;what we actually need to produce&lt;/b&gt; and how to do it in a way that is healthy &lt;i&gt;both&lt;/i&gt; to the soil &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; to the people (keeping also in mind that a lot of scientific research - and also &quot;official&quot; recommendations - concerning &quot;healthy&quot; nutrition done during the past 50 years are at least somewhat influenced by the needs of the big agribusinesses, so it is not at all trivial to discern the &quot;real truth&quot; about the matter). 

In a nutshell, I feel that the permacultural food production &quot;model&quot;, in order to be taken really seriously, would really benefit from sound nutritional assessments - taking into account diversity of opinions and needs, presenting the underlying assumptions transparently and openly, also acknowledging that those assumptions might be wrong.

So to get back to my original question, it would be really great if you could elaborate a bit the nutritional assumptions behind the 2-3% land use estimate that you mentioned in the article?

All the best,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Geoff,<br />
thank you for the great article! Very inspiring, it made me start thinking of ways how to raise awareness about permaculture in our schools (in Finland). </p>
<p>I would very much appreciate if you could elaborate one thing, namely, what kind of nutritional assumptions is your 2-3% land use estimate based on? </p>
<p>By &#8220;nutritional assumptions&#8221; I mean &#8211; what kind of food, and how much, we actually need to produce if we are to stay healthy. Determining this is way more tricky than it might seem: </p>
<p>* Firstly, if we focus primarily on  basic (physiological) nutritional needs, we ultimately need  to consider about sixty or so micro- and macronutrients (actually there are more if we consider e.g. certain short chain saturated fatty acids as separate nutrients that should be obtained from food for optimum health) and tens of antinutrients, pollutants and contaminants present even in organic food.</p>
<p>* Secondly, all the nutrients need to be obtained in appropriate amounts and ratios &#8211; and often the problem is actually getting <i>too much</i> of a certain thing, which then creates a havoc in the body by e.g. messing up the endocrine system (e.g. too much or too little carbohydrates, or goitrogenic foods), or causing inflammation (e.g. fructose), or causing vitamin/mineral deficiency by increased consumption (e.g. foods containing too much fiber or lectins), or overburdening certain internal organs (e.g. too much sugars, or alcohol). And often it is not at all trivial to avoid because of low nutritional density of food..  </p>
<p>* Thirdly, each of us has unique metabolism and unique needs. To give just a couple of examples; some people do fine with &gt;300 grams of starch each day, others would get eventually sick from that amount and would therefore benefit from a more fat based diet. Most people &#8211; at least in western countries &#8211; would do well to reduce the ingestion of omega-6 fatty acids, which can have adverse effects on health if consumed in disproportionate amounts (easy to do), this also serves as an example of the second point above.</p>
<p>* Fourthly, most (if not all) healthy traditional populations have their food culture based on either starch or (mostly saturated) natural fats as the primary energy source. There are no healthy cultures (that I&#8217;m aware of) that are basing their diet primarily on sugars or polyunsaturated fats &#8211; this is why the  farther from the equator one gets, the more animal-based diets tend to be &#8211; as the fatty acid profile of plants tends to shift from saturated to (poly)unsaturated.</p>
<p>So there is a lot of &#8220;nutritional diversity&#8221; to be taken into account &#8211; various physiological, cultural, genetic, ecological and geographical aspects &#8211; and so any attempt to create an unified nutritional model will likely result either in a mess, or a dysfunctional one-size-fits-all approach.</p>
<p>Nevertheless I feel strongly that it would be enormously important and useful &#8211; even for permaculture movement in general &#8211; to put a lot of thought into this very aspect &#8211; <b>what we actually need to produce</b> and how to do it in a way that is healthy <i>both</i> to the soil <i>and</i> to the people (keeping also in mind that a lot of scientific research &#8211; and also &#8220;official&#8221; recommendations &#8211; concerning &#8220;healthy&#8221; nutrition done during the past 50 years are at least somewhat influenced by the needs of the big agribusinesses, so it is not at all trivial to discern the &#8220;real truth&#8221; about the matter). </p>
<p>In a nutshell, I feel that the permacultural food production &#8220;model&#8221;, in order to be taken really seriously, would really benefit from sound nutritional assessments &#8211; taking into account diversity of opinions and needs, presenting the underlying assumptions transparently and openly, also acknowledging that those assumptions might be wrong.</p>
<p>So to get back to my original question, it would be really great if you could elaborate a bit the nutritional assumptions behind the 2-3% land use estimate that you mentioned in the article?</p>
<p>All the best,</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/08/12/permaculture-your-way-to-sustainable-living/#comment-51585</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=3707#comment-51585</guid>
		<description>That sure inspired me! Thank you Geoff...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That sure inspired me! Thank you Geoff&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Øyvind Holmstad</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/08/12/permaculture-your-way-to-sustainable-living/#comment-51582</link>
		<dc:creator>Øyvind Holmstad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 06:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=3707#comment-51582</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this wonderful article! It made me optimistic for change in the world, until I read the news that a new law in Brasil give right for increased deforestation: http://globalvoicesonline.org/2010/08/12/brazil-new-forestry-code-the-right-to-deforestation/

The deforestation in the Amazones decreased with 49 % in June compared with last year, but with this proposed new law reform this will end, and the pretected status for enormous forest areas will be abandoned. Here is the new law reform in Portugeese: http://www.camara.gov.br/internet/sileg/Prop_Detalhe.asp?id=17338

If this reform get trough it will be a serious back slash for our planet, as if it was not bad enough with all the forest fires in Russia, we shall now again increase the deforestation in the Amazones.

I hope permaculture can use their recourses in South Amerika to enlighten people about this new law making deforestation legal in protected forests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this wonderful article! It made me optimistic for change in the world, until I read the news that a new law in Brasil give right for increased deforestation: <a href="http://globalvoicesonline.org/2010/08/12/brazil-new-forestry-code-the-right-to-deforestation/" rel="nofollow">http://globalvoicesonline.org/2010/08/12/brazil-new-forestry-code-the-right-to-deforestation/</a></p>
<p>The deforestation in the Amazones decreased with 49 % in June compared with last year, but with this proposed new law reform this will end, and the pretected status for enormous forest areas will be abandoned. Here is the new law reform in Portugeese: <a href="http://www.camara.gov.br/internet/sileg/Prop_Detalhe.asp?id=17338" rel="nofollow">http://www.camara.gov.br/internet/sileg/Prop_Detalhe.asp?id=17338</a></p>
<p>If this reform get trough it will be a serious back slash for our planet, as if it was not bad enough with all the forest fires in Russia, we shall now again increase the deforestation in the Amazones.</p>
<p>I hope permaculture can use their recourses in South Amerika to enlighten people about this new law making deforestation legal in protected forests.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2010/08/12/permaculture-your-way-to-sustainable-living/#comment-51539</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=3707#comment-51539</guid>
		<description>Wow! Thanks Geoff! I thought I was already well excited about the PDC in Jordan in a couple of months but now...well...let&#039;s just say I have to stand up. You just can&#039;t experience this kind of excited motivation properly sitting down...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Thanks Geoff! I thought I was already well excited about the PDC in Jordan in a couple of months but now&#8230;well&#8230;let&#8217;s just say I have to stand up. You just can&#8217;t experience this kind of excited motivation properly sitting down&#8230;</p>
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