Scientologists in Haitian Disaster Relief – Some Questions
Aid Projects, People Systems, Society — by Craig Mackintosh February 1, 2010
Does Scientology and permaculture’s People Care ethic conflict? And, if so, should this matter to permaculturists?
Preliminary Note: Comments from people who sound like they haven’t read all of this post in its entirety will not be moderated through. I want no ill-thought-out, off-the-cuff comments here. Thank you.
This post won’t be an easy one to formulate so as to avoid controversy. Indeed, avoiding controversy on this topic is likely impossible. But, sometimes when you try to adhere to principle you’re given tasks that are not easy, pleasant or welcome. I’ll state right now that I write this article reluctantly. Making the decision to do so took some deliberation, and was also encouraged by the prompting of others who have emailed me privately with the same shared concern. In this post I will attempt to be objective and respectful – and I hope anyone who comments will endeavour to do this as well.
The tragedy of the Haiti earthquake is immense, and perhaps the worst aspect is that the healing process for people and land will take so much longer than it could have since Haiti was already drowning in problems before the earth shook and as such have little built in resiliency beyond some individual determination to survive. I’ve already visited the topic of how Haiti’s situation has been made a thousand-fold worse because of the economic colonialism of the world’s great powers, so won’t address this again here. The focus of this post, instead, is on aspects of the relief effort that some involved may wish to consider. Actually, I write this not only in relation to the relief effort for Haiti alone, but also for the benefit of the victims, relief workers and donors the world over who will participate in the future disasters that will surely strike in ensuing years.
I speak, in particular, about the involvement of Scientologists in relief efforts. Scientologists state that Scientology is currently the world’s fastest growing religion. Others dispute this, but either way, their involvement in disaster relief is growing. Scientologists claim that "Through the last 20 years, Scientology Volunteer Ministers have provided emergency service at 126 worst-case disaster sites. Today, they are among the most recognized independent relief organizations in the free world." (volunteerministers.org) If the statement is even remotely true, it means the discussion that follows is appropriate since permaculture is increasingly seen as offering some of the best solutions for disaster relief and long term sustainable development – so putting the work of Scientologists in some kind of understandable context will be pertinent for permaculturists who wish to support or be involved in permaculture aid work.
I say I write the post reluctantly for a couple of reasons:
- First is because I am all for freedom of religion. I believe most permaculturists would agree that the future we would like to build would necessarily incorporate many of the principles featured in the U.S. constitution – like the rights to freedom of speech and freedom of belief, etc. As such, it is not my purpose or desire to stigmatise or publicly attack any group or individuals. So, I won’t. I am flat out not attempting to do this. (I will therefore not moderate through unreasonable rants and vengeful outpourings in comments on this post towards Scientologists. Keep it civil and intelligent and your comment should get through however. I may moderate through unreasonable rants and vengeful outpourings aimed at me though.)
- Secondly, I am reluctant to write this because Haitians desperately need aid, and I do not wish anything I write to diminish their chances of getting that aid in double-quick fashion.
So, why am I making this post at all? Well, because permaculture is based on three central tenets – Earth Care, People Care, and Fair Share. The purpose of this post is solely to open for discussion the possibility that Scientology may be incompatible with the second principle – People Care. I will state right now that I don’t know enough about the group to be decisive on this, so am here merely bringing this potential incompatibility to the greater permaculture community so they can consider this possibility and then make their own decisions on:
- whether there is such an incompatibility, and
- whether that incompatibility is important to us or not.
If permaculturists decide there is no conflict, they would then be able to move on from this issue with peace of mind.
The reason I think this topic should be opened for reasoned and objective debate is that the involvement of Scientologists in permaculture relief efforts (or the involvement of permaculturists in Scientologist’s relief efforts, as the case may be) sets a precedent. There will be more disasters, and we may well find Scientologists and permaculturists working side by side in relief efforts again in the future. Thus, discussing this now is appropriate and timely, even if difficult. Discussing it now, I would state, is in accordance with a very basic permaculture principle – to carefully observe before drawing out a design plan, so as to save time, energy and trouble further down the track. If we’re designing permaculture relief strategies, then careful observation now may help ensure we’re best prepared to be the most effective in subsequent tragedies.
Many of you will have read the Permaculture Relief Corps Forming For Haiti Earthquake Response? post we recently put up. If you haven’t, I’d suggest you do so now and come back here to continue. Please also read the comments through – well, at least those from my comment of January 21, 2010 onwards. (Scroll down to the comment that begins with ‘Note from site editor’ in bold lettering.) From reading those comments you’ll understand more how this situation arose, and you’ll also see from the comments that followed mine the need to stimulate discussion on this. You’ll see from those comments that some people have opted out of getting involved in the relief effort because of the connection with Scientology. (Some who didn’t comment on the site have emailed me to state their decision to opt out as well.) This shows that the issue is of concern to some permaculturists so has the potential to, at the very least, complicate future permaculture aid efforts as it has already for Haiti.
Possible Implications
I think it can be said that if the current precedent is the beginning of further such relief scenarios, then Scientologists may be providing resources (like flights, etc., as they seem to be now) to permaculturists again in the future. Some of the potential/possible implications for this are:
- The valuable, practical aid capabilities of permaculturists (sanitation/food/water/housing/energy systems, etc.) could become an effective vehicle for Scientologists to gain greater access to vulnerable communities and contribute to the legitimisation of their organisation.
- Given the controversial nature of Scientology, the reputation of the permaculture community could be tarnished if people perceive that the above point is a reality.
- If permaculturists do a great work on the ground, and it was financed or otherwise aided by Scientologists, then Scientologists may lay claim to the work itself, thus diminishing the ability of the permaculture movement to develop in its own right and stand on its own legs (donations could potentially also go through The Church of Scientology or its members rather than through permaculture relief groups).
- If the Scientology belief system itself results in behaviours and activities amongst its own members that conflict with the permaculture People Care principle, then this gives permaculturists a moral dilemma – as by participating in their relief efforts, and effectively helping them to grow as a viable, more acceptable religion, permaculturists may find they’re assisting the growth of an organisation that is in direct conflict with their own principles.
- If permaculturists are found to be assisting the growth of Scientology through legitimising it via working partnerships, and if the accusations of Scientology critics are at all valid (again, I don’t know, and it seems that for me to find out I’d have to, according to Scientology’s leading spokesperson, join their group to find out for myself, which I have no inclination to do) then permaculturists could be assisting the formation of a power structure whose world view and ultimate goals are in stark contrast to those of permaculturists.
Touch assists and other treatments and accusations of vindictive behaviour
Critics of Scientology, including ex-Scientologists, make startling accusations about the group’s treatment of both Scientology members and ex-members, as well as accusations about other aspects of non-ethical behaviour, like dishonesty.
An example of the latter issue (dishonesty) can be found here, where Scientologists who were at ‘ground zero’ of the 9/11 twin towers disaster are accused of dishonesty in their dealings with news media and in their dealings with police who manned the barricades around the disaster zone. Scientologists are also accused, in this same situation, of trying to stop traumatised people from accessing counseling. (Scientologists are very open about their opposition to traditional psychiatric counseling techniques). The following quote is said to be part of a leaked email from a Scientologist regarding their work on the ground at 9/11:
Additionally we are trying to move in and knock the psychs out of counseling to the grieving families and that could take another 100 plus people right now. Due to some brilliant maneuvering by some simply genius Sea Org Members we tied up the majority of the psychs who were attempting to get to families yesterday in Q&A, bullbait and wrangling. They have a hard time completing cycles of action and are pretty easy to disperse. - Xenu.net
These are all points that permaculturists might wish to consider. In Haiti for example, there is and will be for a very long time, a major problem with mental health/trauma due to the shocking nature of the tragedy that has befallen them – see here, here and here for more on this – and on-going depression as many people fail to come to terms with life without legs, arms, homes, family members, means of sustenance and much more. Scientologists are using ‘touch assists‘ and possibly other assists in Haiti right now and are also training surviving Haitians to do so as well. Scientologists believe these methods to be very effective. (I’ve never experienced such ‘assists’, so can’t comment.) Permaculturists may thus wish to consider the relative merits of these methods compared with those that could be getting applied more widely in Haiti if other agencies were there instead of Scientologists. And, as surviving Haitians are being taught these methods, permaculturists should consider the relative merits of people being given such training as opposed to other types of training they could be receiving instead.
There is a lot of controversy over Scientologists’ views on treatment. The case of Lisa McPherson, who apparently died in very strange circumstances while in their care, is a case in point. (See also.)
Disasters to aid spread of Scientology?
Permaculturists may also want to consider the purpose and potential long-term outcomes of such treatments in view of L. Ron Hubbard’s strategy for the growth of their organisation:
"Every day in the daily papers one discovers people who have been victimised… [The Scientologist] should enter the presence of the person and give a nominal assist, leave his card which says where church services are held with the statement that a much fuller recovery is possible by coming to free services… Handling the press he should simply say that it is a mission of the church to assist those in need." February, 1956
"Casualty contact is very old, is almost never tried and is almost always roaringly successful… This is a pretty routine drill really. You get permission to visit. You go in and give patients a cheery smile. You want to know if you can do anything for them, you give them a card and tell them to come around to your group… Your statement, ‘the modern scientific church can cure things like that. Come around and see’ will work. It’s straight recruiting!" September, 1959
- written by L. Ron Hubbard, published in the Independent
Is there a conflict with the permaculture People Care principle?
In regards to a potential, direct conflict with the People Care principle, specifically, accusations of critics of Scientology are numerous (see here and here to get you started on an internet full of such accusations) and, if true, would make the considerations of this post highly pertinent. The Church’s ‘fair game‘ policy against people and organisations they perceive as being their enemies should form the centrepiece of discussion here, I believe.
The punishments apparently meted out on members and non-members, in different degrees of severity, are quoted below, from Xenu.net, and fairgamed.org lists a great many more practical examples as well:
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO Policy Letter of 18 October 1967,
Issue IV
Remimeo
PENALTIES FOR LOWER CONDITIONS
(Applies both Orgs and Sea Org)
LIABILITY Suspension of pay and a dirty grey rag on left arm and day
and night confinement to org premises.
TREASON Suspension of pay and deprivation of all uniforms and insignia,
a black mark on left cheek and confinement on org premises or
dismissal from post and debarment from premises.
DOUBT Debarment from premises. Not to be employed. Payment of fine
amounting to any sum may have cost org. Not to be trained or
processed. Not to be communicated or argue with.
ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by
any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the
Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.
LRH:jp L. RON HUBBARD
Copyright (c) 1967 Founder
by L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
|
Scientology’s founder, L. Ron Hubbard, and its present leader, David Misgavige
An enormous amount of controversy also surrounds the founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard, a science fiction writer who went on to create the Scientology belief system. A quick Google search will result in reams of accusations about lies and motives, personal drug abuse and other scandals. An ex-Scientologist, Gerry Armstrong, claims that before he left the organisation he attempted to write a biography on Hubbard so as to address the concerns of critics of Scientology, but that in doing so he discovered that much of Hubbard’s claims about himself (his credentials and history, etc.) were lies. Mr. Armstrong says that when he tried to correct Church records to reflect what he discovered, the church turned on him with litigation:
Mr Armstrong says that when he sought to have the record corrected the church turned on him, eventually suing him for theft of the documents that Hubbard had turned over to him.
The church lost the first round, the judge in part finding: ”In addition to violating and abusing its own members’ civil rights, the organisation over the years with its ‘fair game’ doctrine has harassed and abused those persons not in the church whom it perceives as enemies.
”The organisation clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder. The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background and achievements.
”The writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egoism, greed, avarice, lust for power and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile." – Sydney Morning Herald
Controversy surrounds the current leader of the organisation, David Misgavige, particularly in regards to accusations by former Scientologists of physical violence inflicted on subordinates by him.
Possible Scientology beliefs that should not be discussed
Controversy also surrounds Scientologists in regards to intergalactic entities that are said to be affecting us all today. These theological beliefs are said to be in ’scriptures’ only accessible to higher level Scientologists. From watching Martin Basher of ABC News trying to get clarification on some of those beliefs I see I might offend Scientologists by discussing these here, so I will refrain from doing so. People in my mind must travel their own path in life and so are welcome to their own beliefs. I would suggest to anyone intending to comment here that they should respect their desire not to discuss this aspect, particularly as I think it may have little or nothing to do with the behaviour of the organisation, which is far more relevant to the discussion at hand.
Is it critical for Scientologists to be involved in disaster relief at all?
Discussing the ideal source of aid in tragic circumstances is obviously more of an argument for us on the outside of the situation. For Haitians of course, they will be happy for assistance from whatever source – in the short term at least. The Volunteer Ministers of Scientology have somehow managed to get in, and fast, where others haven’t:
The lines are worked out to get personnel in these planes through the security lines, etc and on site where it will count… They have the lines greased to get through to Haiti – all you need is a passport and malaria pills, and personal items. This is the best way to go in you will be with a strong, experienced disaster team who knows how to use the lines to get equipment and get things done in a chaotic situation, and are very careful of their safety, etc…. and the church has planes and lines strung to get them in fast…. I can get funding for plane tickets and even get you clearance from Homeland Security…. I’m serious, I’ll do that for you. - Cory Brennan, Scientologist and permaculture aid worker, commenting on our recent post.
This ability to get into Haiti is certainly impressive. I am really unsure how this was acheived.
Some could of course argue that Scientologists bringing in aid is less of a ‘better-them-than-nothing’ situation, but more of a ‘if-not-them-then-someone-else-could-be-there-instead’ scenario. For example, some aid agencies appear to be annoyed that Scientologists are taking airport time and space that they could be utilising instead:
There is a backlog of at least 800 aircraft awaiting permission to land at the overloaded airport, which can handle just 130 flights daily, prompting recriminations from some aid agencies. – Mail & Guardian
Closing thoughts
In addition to the People Care principle, there may also be conflicts between Scientology and the first and third principles of permaculture as well (Earth Care, and Fair Share). There are many accusations of members being tricked out of money, for example, which, if true, would conflict with the economic aspects of the Fair Share principle. I don’t know if Scientology beliefs include earth preservation aspects or not, as many other religions do, but, if not, this could have the potential to impact the Earth Care principle as well? But, with this post already being long enough for one sitting, I won’t take more time on these aspects now.
I will again stress that I’m pleased Haitians are receiving aid, and I am, again, in no way making an attack on Scientologists either as individuals or as a group. As a mortal being I am in no position to judge motives and do want to presume the best of people and trust they are well-intentioned. I am merely seeking to provide a platform for discussion so that the greater permaculture community can take a moment of pause to consider whether the precedent that has begun here is something to applaud or to be concerned about, and so that we can move forward more productively after discussing these things.
In closing, please feel free to comment (with intelligence and civility, or you won’t get through) if you have thoughts/facts that might either: 1) put permaculturists at ease in regards to a relationship between permaculture relief efforts and Scientologists, or that 2) might help permaculturists worldwide determine whether they should have any connection with the organisation at all, and if so, what the nature of that ‘connection’ should be?
I would again suggest that these discussions centre on whether Scientology is compatible with the permaculture People Care principle, as that principle is integral to the permaculture movement and looking at this potential conflict simplifies any argument over whether permaculturists should be involved with Scientologists. If it is not compatible, then the next question is does our connecting with Scientologists legitimise their existence? If we find it does, does that mean that through involvement we’re helping to grow an organisation that is in direct opposition to our world view? And, would that be intelligent permaculture design?
From my attempts to learn more about the group, there does seem to be a clear conflict at a foundational, behavioural level.
Further Watching:
- The BBC Panorama on Scientology: Part I, Part II, Part III, and Part IV
- Tommy Davis, Scientology spokesperson, on Scientology
I too feel uncomfortable with the religious aspects of what this group of people are doing.
I feel the same way about the Mormons, the Baptists, the Catholics (of which 80% of Haiti is), Evangelicals of all flavors, etc.
I think it would be a profound disservice to the core principles of permaculture and to the very hard work we all have ahead of us for the permaculture movement to become associated in the minds of those who do not know about permaculture with any religion.
But I am not everyone and many people have belief systems which are integral with their worldview, part of which is a permacultural relationship with nature.
Who am I to say that no religion is to be officially involved? You can say I am unbiased, perhaps, I am certainly not beholden to any.
But I also know, beneath the layers of dogma, there are people who wish to help and that wish is a commonality that transcends any mythology.
I also know that religions, be they new or old, are not pure altruism and must not be regarded as operating from that place as they are a sum aggregate of a huge complexity of ambitions and agendas.
I comment only to suggest that there may not be an answer to this. Do we presume to call for consensus? Who are “we”?
Comment by Nika — February 1, 2010 @ 3:42 pm
After this first comment, I will try to restipulate my hope that comments will focus on whether Scientology conflicts with the People Care principle or not, and whether this should concern permaculturists or not. I do so in a bid to save readers having to spend lots of time reading comments that don’t address these central questions.
Comment by Craig Mackintosh — February 1, 2010 @ 4:19 pm
Does Scientology conflict with People Care? Probably, in some or many situations.
Should it be a concern to permies? No. unless someone prevents another from people care in the name of scientology?
It seems to me that the concern in this post is political, and in itself deviating from People Care at this point in time. There are many people, groups and organisations with association to systems of belief and practice that have at some point contravened the ethics of permaculture. There would be many there now thinking about other forms of gain besides simply helping.
I think the permaculturalists should continue to do work, confident that their ethics and principles transcend political and religious concerns. I also think permaculturalists should be wary of adopting an identity outside themselves ie: a permaculturalist.
Permaculture is a design methodology. A scientologist could use it, a Catholic could use it, an Australian can use it, I can use it. Beyond that, and it starts to take the form of a cult, political movement, or religion, forcing people to think and behave outside themselves, leading to a contradiction of the 2nd ethic. It is precisely this group identity that has lead to your post, and people to withdraw their offer to help.
Comment by leigh blackall — February 1, 2010 @ 6:37 pm
Craig, I’ve read through your post as well as Nika’s comment and I have the following thoughts:
Nika makes a good point by asking who are “we”. I understand your request, Craig, to make an assessment as to whether or not Scientology’s stated belief system and reported actions are incongruous with permaculture ethics – however I think this question of “who are ‘we’” needs to be explored a bit before your core questions can be addressed in full.
Part of the stated definition of permaculture on the “What is Permaculture” page of this site is: “Permaculture design is a system of assembling conceptual, material, and strategic components in a pattern which functions to benefit life in all its forms.”
The comment I hear quite often in permaculture circles is – it’s often difficult to define permaculture because it encompasses such a broad spectrum of disciplines. Permaculture, as a “movement” (for lack of a better term) feels very “alive” because it is in a constant state of evolution and metamorphosis.
So, going back to the question, who are “we”… Does “we” refer to people who have taken a certification course? Does “we” refer to people associated with the Permaculture Institute of Australia?
Permaculture seems to have evolved, good or ill, into something rather decentralized. I believe this decentralized aspect of permaculture has been a great benefit, and has allowed it to grow and prosper without the hubris of a overly structured bureaucracy.
All that being said, if we really get into this question of “whether Scientology conflicts with the People Care principle or not” — it easily leads to questions like, “does Catholicism conflict with the People Care principles, or Wiccan, etc…”.
If permaculture is a design science, or a set of design principles, then by its nature its open to everyone no matter what they profess.
I think the main issue being addressed here is “guilt by association”. I, like all of the people I’ve met who are passionate about permaculture, have witnessed its effectiveness and have a strong desire to see it spread and be utilized for the greatest environmental and social good.
And, I do see the potential detriment in permaculture being inaccurately represented based on the actions of a specific person or organization. This then leading to negative public opinions that could keep permaculturists from getting funding, invited in as consultants (especially in disaster areas like Haiti), etc…
One possible solution:
We, as a permaculture community, come up with a set of general requests we make of each other. These requests would center on drawing clear lines between our other affiliations and our work with permaculture.
Specific “requests” could be made regarding how we speak about permaculture when being interviewed, or in articles we publish.
These would then be published or shared in some fashion (beyond just this website). It would then be up to the community at large to self-govern.
Another option could be to request that the Permaculture Inst. of Australia (Bill Mollison, Geoff Lawton, etc…) come up with a similar set of requested guidelines and publish them.
As a long-term approach, I think this general direction could be more fruitful than isolating any one particular group for scrutiny.
Comment by Michael Ferguson — February 1, 2010 @ 7:53 pm
It seems very difficult to pin down the “ethics” of Scientology in order to make an informed comment. From to Wikipedia:
“According to the Church of Scientology, “Ethics may be defined as the actions an individual takes on himself to ensure his continued survival across the dynamics. It is a personal thing. When one is ethical, it is something he does himself by his own choice.”
So we have to look at the “dynamics” again from Wikipedia:
“Scientology states that the basic principle of existence is “survive”.[10][16] Survival is considered as the single and sole purpose and it is subdivided into eight dynamics:[17] [18]
* Dynamic one is the urge towards survival as an individual.
* Dynamic two is the urge towards survival through procreation; it includes both the act of sex and the raising and care of children.
* Dynamic three is the urge towards survival for the group.
* Dynamic four is the urge of the individual toward survival for Mankind.
* Dynamic five is the urge to survive as a life organism and embraces all life forms.
* Dynamic six is the urge to survive as part of the physical universe and includes the survival of the physical universe.
* Dynamic seven is the urge toward survival as a spirit.
* Dynamic eight is the urge toward survival as a part of the Supreme Being.
The optimum solution to any problem is that solution which brings the greatest benefit to the greatest number of dynamics.”
Further from wikipedia:
“In 1965, Hubbard issued the policy letter HCOPL 1 Sep 1965 (reissued 5 Oct 1985) entitled “Ethics Protection”. In it, he states that “Ethics actions are often used to handle down individual statistics. A person who is not doing his job becomes an Ethics target” and goes on to detail how a Scientologist can protect himself from Ethics punishment by being more productive and keeping statistics up:
“In short, a staff member can get away with murder so long as his statistic is up and can’t sneeze without a chop if it’s down.”
If the staff member’s production is sufficiently high (as evidenced by an up statistic), the Scientologist gains an immunity to the Ethics process, even if they have openly committed violations:”
Any group who’s “ethics” or “dynamics” allow someone to “get away with murder” relative to the statistical amount of “good (or approved) work” they have done in the past would not seem to be working in line with permacultures core ethics.
I find it difficult to see the above list of ethics/dynamics as any way in line with permaculture core ethics.
It is one thing to say you are using permaculture principles in your relief efforts, it is quite another to claim permaculture ethics guide your relief efforts if all you are doing is aligning banners and disregarding the core ethics.
Comment by Anon — February 1, 2010 @ 8:58 pm
The important point is that there is a world of a difference between a “witch hunt”, i.e. harrassment due to somebody’s personal beliefs, and keeping an eye on actual damaging activities which may at first seem difficult to explain, but become quite obvious when viewed in the context of some particular belief framework.
There are, actually, quite a number of very damaging “belief frameworks” out there. Indeed, it quite often seems that all that is needed to turn ordinary people into monsters is to (a) ensure they never received an opportunity to develop their judgment, and (b) give them some ideology. If that is well-meaning, even the better(?) A specific example I experienced first hand: In some British hospitals, it seems, breasfeeding is “worshipped” in an ideology-like fashion to the extent that it can happen that newborn children of young mothers are denied food for days if lactation does not set in immediately. (To someone who himself was brought up by breast-feeding, but also received formula milk top-ups during his very first days, as any pragmatic approach to such problems would suggest, this seems quite incomprehensible.)
So, the question really is: if Scientologists, say, disrupt the work of e.g. professional mental health care workers, as they seemingly did with other disasters, what to make of this? It may appear to be a good thing to them (otherwise they would not do it, right?). But who should be the judge on this? The more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion: perhaps the people affected by disaster should judge.
So, it would be very interesting to hear, say, what Hurricane Katrina victims have to say about Scientology’s role in the aftermath.
Comment by Thomas Fischbacher — February 1, 2010 @ 9:46 pm
I think scientology is a top down organisation, while permaculture is down up. I like the last best, to spread power equal to everybody, and the top organisation being servants for the ordinary people at ground level.
Comment by Øyvind Holmstad — February 2, 2010 @ 2:06 am
Scientology violates the People Care principle because its members make a deliberate selection about which people to “care” for and why. Disaster relief efforts are on the basis of identification of “easy” and vulnerable targets and motivated by the need to expand “the market”, to get more people to contribute to their movement – it’s a marketing methodology.
As people subscribing to the ethical principles of permaculture it seems quite impossible to be involved in any work done by people subscribing to the ethical principles Scientology. They are mutually exclusive.
What should worry us is when WE believe that permaculture is just a methodology, an objective scientific exercise, beyond ethical choices and personal responsibility.
WE need to take responsibility for our own behavior and make on-the-spot judgements of what is appropriate. “Who is to judge?” You are, I am. On the basis of displayed behavior.
Solution?
As we choose not to design anything that is involved with industrial methodologies, we should choose not to design anything that is involved with Scientology methodologies. A public statement to that effect from concerned parties, like the copyright holders of “permaculture” might help.
Permaculture disaster relief should be independent of the agendas of any organizations.
Some permaculture related organizations require underwriting the Earth Charter on applying for membership. That seems to deter some Scientology followers from getting formally involved.
Comment by Leo Bakx — February 2, 2010 @ 4:23 am
I agree whole heartedly with Leo Bakx above. I would like to add that I beleive any CoS involvement with Permaculture would conflict with People Care. We are directly supporting an organisation that has directives that harm (and have killed) their own members. To support their expansion in a very vulnerable population in any way would directly conflict with People Care.
Someone mentioned about asking the people, however I believe that is a dangerous position – imagine you have starving or thirsty people and you offer them water that you explain to them may contain asbestos or something that might kill them. In their desperate state they will reach for it anyway. To ask them to make judgement in such a dire time on whether a religion like scientology would be to their detriment would be deliberately careless.
Comment by Brendan — February 2, 2010 @ 1:00 pm
Any good philosophy is always prone to problems when you add humans. I know little about Scientology other than it is a philosophy based on Buddhism and Hinduism. Both belief systems focus on the spiritual world. One of the reasons I Iike permaculture is because it implies living in harmony with nature and the spirit of the land. If any logical person studies nature long enoegh they will come to the conclusion that there must be an intelligent creator existing in a world beyond time. Most of the world philosophies have similarities which include people care.
We must not forget that the broadcast media is predominantly socialist in it’s views, They love to church bash and they love their governments to control the people. With fear people are easy to control, when people have faith goverments have no power. Thats why the communist chinese ban christians.
Comment by Daryl Clark — February 2, 2010 @ 7:12 pm
Brendan,
“Someone mentioned about asking the people, however I believe that is a dangerous position”
I think you might have misunderstood me about that. I suggested asking Hurricane Katrina victims now that considerable time has passed(!) and they had an opportunity to get things sorted out what they think in hindsight about the role of the CoS.
Comment by Thomas Fischbacher — February 3, 2010 @ 3:30 am
From my point of view Permaculture is a Science not a religion. It can be useful and beneficial to all. Most of us in our daily lives work with or deal with people we don’t particularly agree with. It can be a cooperative helpful venture while accepting that our co-workers have different religions and points of view. If scientologist wants to provide flights and other provisions for permaculture ventures what does it hurt? It certainly doesn’t mean that those who want to proceed to help with permaculture principles are adhearing to or condoning any ill treatment that the religion may have caused. Working with a dishonest person only engages us when we personally are involved in an action that is not acceptable to us. It becomes an individual responsability to respond. People who think they know it all or have the only truth may be harder to tolerate than mellow individuals, but most of us have completed projects sucessfully under those circustances. It’s like having gravel in your shoe, uncomfortable but not life changing.
If those who want to promote permaculture start to shun others like they are a religion than it becomes cultish. I think each situation should be taken on it’s own basis, are there strings attached? etc.
The basis of Permaculture so stated is conceptual. Most of those who are into permacultlure see it as a way to really solve earth problems. People care is more or less a personal matter as are some of the other concepts. I think rebuilding Haiti or other devastated areas with Permaculture principles makes sense, it creates resources and quality of life, why bring religion into it?
Anna
Comment by Anna Lorraine — February 4, 2010 @ 4:13 am
Anna,
“why bring religion into it?”
Erm, it’s not as if anyone actually had asked for the problem addressed in this article.
Having said that, there are a number of “belief systems” out there that claim to be either a religion, or a science (some both, cf. Mary Baker Eddy’s “Christian Science”), where I actually have serious doubts about that claim…
Comment by Th — February 4, 2010 @ 5:16 am
What I meant by the statement,”Why bring religion into it?” was we all have our own personal belief systems, those systems can be scientific or not. Permaculture is not a religion, generally speaking. It may be a religion to some. I see it as a practical solution to some very serious problems. For those who base everything they do on religious principles they may be bothered but why should it become an issue with everyone who is interested in the very practical practice of Permaculture? If any group chooses to give aid to a disaster why not cooperate unless, as I said, there are strings attached? I just don’t understand the religious issue here. Apparently it is important to you and some others and I’m not urging anyone to go against their conscience but why do we have to judge collectively? That’s my point of view, which I believe is an educated one. I am an ex Jehovah’s Witness and know how religions can be abusive if you begin to see them in a negative light. I can work with them on a good cause if allowed, even though I might be uncomfortable and feel they have objectionable practices.
I personally think from reading some of the other posts on the original request for aid to Haiti, if the Scientology remarks had been ignored it wouldn’t be an issue. Why even defend such nonsense, tell them to keep their religious judgements to themselves. The real issue is getting help to Haiti and others through one of the most practical and useful ways, Permaculture. Anna
Comment by Anna Lorraine — February 4, 2010 @ 7:09 am
Dear Anna and others who mention religion to not bring up religion as an issue here.
Let’s pretend that Scientology is a company like Monsanto, aggressively marketing their product in disaster area’s, spreading the joy’s of the ‘green revolution’. Would we be having the same apologetic arguments about their belief system, methods and goals? Would you still be happy to work with them?
A brilliant reminder of our personal responsibility that I came across just the other day was the JK Rowling Harvard Commencement Speech in 2008. You can find it yourself at http://harvardmagazine.com/commencement/the-fringe-benefits-failure-the-importance-imagination (video and transcript).
One passage in particular speaks to me:
(my emphasis on the last paragraph)
Of course we should help people in need, but this discussion seems to be about the ethical choices we make in delivering that help.
I choose not to let myself be associated with Scientology. Just as I would not recommend RoundUp to my clients even if their garden is overrun with undesirable green stuff. You know – a real disaster
Comment by Leo Bakx — February 4, 2010 @ 3:22 pm
Anna,
You rightly say that “Permaculture is not a religion, generally speaking” – still, some religion-like systems may be in conflict with it.
If you want so, the Japanese state also is not a “religion”, yet it had a serious issue with a “religion” that violated a number of quite fundamental principles of human societies: Aum Shinrikyo. Could we reasonably say that “ah, a secular state should not in any way ever have a clash with a belief system”?
Comment by Thomas Fischbacher — February 4, 2010 @ 9:42 pm
In 1978, I bought a very exciting book called “Permaculture One”. It was revolutionary at the time but so was I. (I was – and am – a Scientologist). The two schools of thought were completely compatible to me – physical and spiritual self-sufficiency.
I’m not going to discuss Scientology and Dianetics. I recommend finding out about anything from primary sources and Mr Hubbard has written 18 basic books on the subjects and recorded 3,000 lectures which trace his journey from 1950. And what a remarkable journey it is.
To see an impartial report of the activities of the Volunteer Ministers in Haiti (who are trained in some of these materials) check out You Tube on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap5ANJ42bso
Glenys.
Comment by Glenys — February 4, 2010 @ 10:14 pm
Let me state again and in another way. I believe Permaculture is a form of social justice, so people care and fair. I just do not believe the discussion of religious justice belongs on this site for the most part. If we moralized every act of help or kindness before we allowed others to work with us it would become ridiculous. Why waste energy on such a discussion when we could be working forward to relieving the Haitians? I don’t care who is or who isn’t a religion and I feel you are way off base creating issues that don’t need to exist in this arena. Anna
Comment by Anna Lorraine — February 5, 2010 @ 2:34 am
Anna,
well, Leo kind of raised an interesting point here. Shouldn’t Monsanto just try to found a religion so that any sort of discussion about what they do could quite elegantly be killed with “let’s not discuss religion”…
Comment by Thomas Fischbacher — February 5, 2010 @ 4:11 am
Its digusting when any religious group comes into a disaster situation bringing thier dogmas and missionaries with them.
I am proud to state that I took a great interest and almost a conversion in Haitian Voodou and New Orleans Hoodoo while researching my ancestors and I think that it is the best thing for the people to hold on too.
I only wish people wouldn’t be such zealots and so self-rightous; If only I could send in black pigs, goats, and chickens for the religious services. Instead of bringing food that will be distributed by churches or the US military.
These organizations don’t want the self-reliance of the people; they want a sharecropper/slave situation to continually be forced on the people. Self-reliance is the panacea that I feel can only be brought on when these people leave. They are bringing in the same social tiers and structure that were around pre-independence.
The original faith of the people is greatly embedded into the framework and culture of Haiti; seeing protestant/evangelicals, and scientologists gain converts who only want food, shelter and a better life for thier children; will create ever greater factions with these people who holdfast to their beliefs and feel quite strongly about them. I can imagine a Kano, Nigeria or a North Ireland like situation arise from this.
(A generalization I know but the proof is in the pudding; religion is an extremely important thing for peoples in the Afro-Diaspora and in Africa itself)
Comment by Lee — February 5, 2010 @ 7:50 am
Craig,
The relationship between permaculturalists and any religious groups should be examined closely as it is an ethical minefield. Essentially I see the difference between the two groups as follows:
• Pemraculturalists seek self reliance and empowerment for communities and/or individuals; and
• Religious groups seek control of an ever larger group of individuals and/or communities for their own benefit.
The core difference between the two is control.
When assistance is accepted from any religious group, permaculturalists will be indistinguishable in the eyes of many from that religious group. The perception on the ground and in the media will be that permaculturalists will be in effect the religious group – there will be no difference. For most people the perception is the truth otherwise marketing wouldn’t work so well.
I would only recommend this path only if all other avenues were exhausted.
Comment by Chris McLeod — February 5, 2010 @ 8:48 am
Lee,
ah, I have to once again cite from Mollison’s autobiography: “The Missionaries always come to do good, and always end up doing very well indeed…” (That’s how I remember it, I think it’s pretty close to the actual wording…)
Comment by Thomas Fischbacher — February 5, 2010 @ 9:54 am
Hello Good People,
This is an interesting debate for me. My wife, kids and I are all Ex-Scientologists since 2003. Personally I was involved in Scientology for 24 years, five of them working within their elite “fraternity”, the Sea Org. My parents and brothers are still avid Scientologists. Since 2006 I have been living in a permaculture community in CA giving me ample time to take in the vast differences and similarities of both ways of living.
It is my personal policy to not support Scientology. I didn’t really get anything out of it, and I find the methods of Scientology Management very destructive to families and even their own survival. That said, if anyone asked me to drive them to the nearest “church” (and I use that term loosely) I would take them. If I use force and intimidation, harassment and name calling or just the withholding of favors to enforce my view of what people should do, then I would become what I left to get away from.
Mahatma Gandhi said it best I think. “You must be the change you wish to see in the world.” Permaculture is what I want to see in the world, and it is what I was looking for. It replaced for me what Scientology was supposed to do, create a chance for peace on Earth. If I can impress upon any of you just one idea, it is that Scientologists need your help more than you need theirs. They need exposure to a methodology that is not authoritarian, or with it’s own justice system, investigations department or enforced code of conduct that they pay dearly for. They (like all of us) need love, compassion, unconditional support and an example of what that looks like on the ground level. You have no idea how a Permaculture Design Course (and the Talent Show) will fundamentally alter a Scientologists existence for the better. They just don’t get exposed to that too often.
It’s probably hard to appreciate this, but Scientologists are some of the most dedicated people I know of. For example, I signed a BILLION year contract. For 5 years I worked for room and board, 30 bucks a week, putting in up to 100 hours weekly to save your butt, not to mention this “sector of the galaxy”. I was a moron to do it, and I learned very valuable lessons in the process, but I did it because I believed the reality I was presented at the time and I was told it was the only way to really help people. I didn’t do it to take advantage of anyone, it was really I who taken advantage of.
I wouldn’t worry too much if you may be supporting Scientology or it’s objectives. Scientology is not growing as a religion, they are only increasing their real estate holdings by fleecing current members. Organized Scientology shoots itself in the foot hourly these days and people are leaving all the time. If they are anything like me they are now looking for a real solution. When they find it, they will be some of the most hard working, dedicated people out there. You can help them by working with them, but not for them. Teach them what you can, show them what Permaculture is about and you may have saved them from spending the rest of their lives making money for a parasitic cult, IMHO.
For any of you who are in Scientology, I mean no disrespect, I’m simply telling my truth. We are all involved in People Care. Scientology, as an organized religion is not, from my personal experience, much concerned with Earth Care or Fair Share, so People Care suffers. How could it not?
I have certainly learned a great deal from those I live with now. It has humbled me to no end, and I consider myself supremely blessed to have another chance in life and still help humanity. Permaculture, Natural Building, Simple Living etc. have been a godsend to me and are all concepts that are not forbidden to Scientologists (yet). Get them started on that path and they will thank you.
Bottom line is Earth Care, People Care and Fair Share won’t truly exist if we are exclusive or shun people who are only trying to help the best way they know how. Teach humility, love, knowledge and compassion by example and the world is yours. Get to know a Scientologist, understand them and you may see yourself staring back. Give them a chance to understand you, and chances are good they will jump off the raft they have been clinging to to join your island of sanity and real solutions anyone can implement without spending $300,000 over a lifetime of hard work. It might take several years but it will happen.
Okay, enough of the soapbox! I’ve hopefully said my piece clearly enough to make sense. I hope it helps. Thank you all for what you do to improve life on Earth! It is appreciated.
Comment by Chris Eisenman — February 5, 2010 @ 11:56 am
Chris Eisenman,
I for one am indebted to you for taking the time to share your relevant experience and also your wise kind heart!
I hope that everyone in this discussion reads your comment and appreciates it.
You have expressed so well the essence of the deep value of permaculture and transition work = to live as an example so that others see the actions and outcomes and not just hear rhetoric.
I have found in the past, working in the pro-choice activism world, that simply listening to the views of one’s “opponents” makes a human connection that I personally value as a step in my development as well as theirs. I dont always expect revelations nor immediate change!
I hope people hear your humanizing message.
Nika
Comment by nika — February 6, 2010 @ 3:08 am
Chris had written me privately with some thoughts a few days ago. I encouraged him to comment here to share his thoughts and am very grateful he took the time to do so.
I am also relieved that this discussion has been amicable and thoughtful, and, I think has achieved its purpose – getting us to think about principles and strategies to deal with such unusual situations. Hopefully readers of the post above and the various comments that followed will come out the other side with a clearer view of their role in such circumstances.
Comment by Craig Mackintosh — February 6, 2010 @ 3:13 am
well i kind of shot through that discussionover a few days. as with many of us, i facilitate in communities with different world views, some with quite hardcore religious structures and the like. It was refreshing to have a sober and heartfelt disussion around the relationship between scientology and permaculture.
as much as i hate quoting people – i think mollison said something about permaculture being the marriage between landscape and culture.
most older cultures and “religions” grew out of bioregional realities, perhaps the more modern cultures and “religions” grew out of the post-industrial headspace which is why we find these dis-connects.
let’s not be afraid, let’s take the time to understand the different paradigm, and as we say in south africa – lets be sharp! (informed, careful and able to make good snap judgements)
lots of love to you on all your missions
i know this has nothing to do with the conversation – WALK IN COOLROOMS????
Comment by Alex Kruger — February 7, 2010 @ 5:28 am
Someone emailed me the following post, titled: “Scientologists in Haiti – a First Hand Account“. I’ll mention it here for interest.
Comment by Craig Mackintosh — February 7, 2010 @ 7:23 pm
Craig,
Since I am both a very knowledgeable Scientologist and an active and knowledgeable permaculturist who actually got first responder permaculturists to Haiti, I’m surprised and extremly disappointed that you did not interview me before writing this article – you made no attempt to clarify ANY of this information with a permaculturist with a proven long-term track record of people care who actually knows something about Scientology (you know about my work in Pine Ridge – did you consider my care for people before writing this article?). Instead, you went to groups who are known to be biased against the religion for your information.
Nor did you make any attempt to contact the five permaculturists who were taken on charter planes leased by Volunteer Ministers to Haiti. Some of them are living in the Scientologists’ camp and they have had very positive things to say about them. You could have gotten their contact information from me before writing this article, to confirm that for yourself. Why didn’t you? Those five are teaching Scientologist Volunteer Ministers how to create sustainable sanitation and water systems, and per the report I just received, they are very receptive. If Scientology is so bad, why not teach them something about people care, Craig? Why deprive them if permaculturists are so much better at it? Shouldn’t we have a mission to teach people about that if we think they need to understand it better? Why would permaculturists avoid doing that? The ones that didn’t avoid it and followed their hearts to go help and do the right thing have found Scientologists to be very receptive to their message – as have I, Craig. Why didn’t you ask me what I’ve done with the Church in regards to permaculture? If it’s so bad, why would you try to discourage people from trying to improve it? It makes absolutely no sense to me at all. That is the exact opposite of permaculture, to me!
Craig, your article shows an extreme lack of people care and insensitivity toward those individuals who are sacrificing quite a bit to help the people of Haiti. Those Scientologists who went who were perhaps somewhat unprepared are moving dead bodies and body parts, cleaning up shit, holding dying people in their arms, and doing things you might not be willing to do yourself. They do not need speculative criticism to come home to, like Vietnam Vets. Please do not even suggest the actions they are engaged in show a lack of people care, Craig! My God. Go down there and SEE FOR YOURSELF what they are doing. Ask the volunteers I sent down with them.
Your article also shows a very disappointing lack of professionalism, which I did not expect from you, who I consider to be a professional. Can you explain why you did not bother to interview the person who actually started this “controversy” by being the first permaculturist to get first responders to Haiti? Can you explain why you didn’t even give me the courtesy of letting me know you had published this article or had any problems with Scientology when we discussed this via email? The modus operandi of many critics of Scientology is covert operation, misinformation and focus on the negative. There is quite a bit of evidence of their lack of people care that I could detail. I can assure you that those you quoted are not at ground zero, risking their lives for Haitians. Yet you have forwarded their opinions without verification.
The permaculturists who have gone there have saved lives. The medical personnel the Scientologists took down there have saved many lives. The permaculturists we sent are working with the US Army, UNICEF and other organizations. Why don’t you do an article on people care of the US Army, or the ethics of doing business with UNICEF, Craig? Why Scientology? I don’t get it. Why wouldn’t permaculturists work with whoever will listen or use whatever energy in the system will allow them to do a good design? Scientologists are all for compost toilets. Isn’t that what permaculture is all about? Do permaculturists refuse to design someone’s garden unless they prove that they care about people first? That is the WHOLE POINT of sending permaculturists to a disaster site, because people are more OPEN to the real, workable solutions that permaculture has. That is why I wanted to get them there now rather than a few weeks from now.
Here is some footage of what the ministers are doing there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap5ANJ42bso
Here’s some feedback from someone who worked with them there:
http://sfachapterix.blogspot.com/2010/02/haiti-humanitarian-relief-covenant.html
I’ve been working 16 hour days here coordinating activities for Haiti, Little Haiti, Overtown and other economically oppressed areas to get permaculture design more broadly used. I’m arranging summer programs at Pine Ridge as well right now. I work extremely hard at getting permaculture solutions to oppressed areas, Craig. This stab in the back against this work is really not appreciated and has nothing to do with people care.
Comment by Cory Brennan — February 11, 2010 @ 5:10 am
It is disappointing that none of the permaculturists who have a “problem” with Scientology have bothered to tell me about it or try to communicate their concerns to me, though I am a very active permaculturist. How is that people care? I wouldn’t go behind someone’s back who was working very hard for a cause they believed in (getting permaculture into broad use in Haiti), and criticize the effort without coming to them about it first. Perhaps we as a group could learn something about our own ethic, and try to be a little less prejudiced and a little more open and embracive, inclusive and considerate to ALL peoples, regardless of religion, race, creed, etc. Is it possible that your article has prejudiced people against me, so that they cannot see me for who I am and look at my actual yields?
I used VM planes because they were an existing resource in the system – a free energy that could be used to get permaculturists to Haiti and give them a place from which they could get effective things done. And they are getting effective things done and maximizing yield. That is exactly what permaculture is about.
The other principle that has been violated is what I consider the first principle of permaculture – OBSERVE. Have any of these critics been to Haiti and watched the Volunteer Ministers at work or seen the results? That is a really important part of permaculture to me – observe the results. That does not mean internet rumor line, but actual overall yields and products.
I do not see permaculture principles at work in this article. We can spend time in carping criticism of each others’ methodology, or we can look at results – i.e YIELDS, and judge designs by that. There is no mention or consideration of yield, but only criticism of the PLANE RIDE these guys got. There is not much perspective here on what is really important here, to my mind, Craig.
I see many criticisms of relief efforts and too many of them come from people who aren’t there on the ground and aren’t willing to help, themselves. Unless one has been there, one really does not know what it is like or what relief workers are dealing with.
If I am emotional it is because I am working with Haitians (one who spent three days under rubble and whose family is living in the streets), another who lost family members, and volunteers who are giving me a lot of emotional stories. It is heartbreaking. The permaculturists who went there as first responders should not have to deal with this armchair speculation about what they were doing when they return. They are dealing with a lot! Please, let us be careful that before we condemn people we really do look at their hearts and what they are actually doing to help others. To me, communication and non-prejudice are part of people care. Please communicate to me directly if you have concerns about this subject, and give me the opportunity to respond.
Comment by Cory Brennan — February 11, 2010 @ 6:26 am
I didn’t have time earlier to read all the responses but now have done so. I think the real problem is that Scientology became an issue at all in this forum. There is no relationship between Scientology and permaculture so why are people trying to create one? There is a bunch of permaculture stuff happening in Haiti (which can be seen at permaculturehaiti.org) and some permaculturists caught a plane ride from Scientologists to get there fast. They are now in Haiti working with a number of organizations – anyone who needs it and whoever they feel they can get something across to. There are permaculturists working with Muslims, Christians, Voodou practioners, etc. I’ve worked with groups from any number of religions. I don’t consider permaculture associated with a religious group simply because I used some permaculture principles on them, or they let me use some facilities. It seems to me that the people with an agenda who are using this forum to promote their agenda are critics of Scientology, not Scientologists.
I have felt I have had to take time away from Haiti and other permaculture projects to discuss this because most of the people speculating about it don’t really know much about it and I feel it would be too bad if it interfered with meaningful work. So far it hasn’t seemed to, our projects continue to get a lot of support and I have really enjoyed working with those in the permaculture community who have made a point to get to know me as an individual and work with me.
The permaculturists who are down there now and those who are going are some really good guys, and I have a lot of respect and admiration for what they’re doing. There are now a number of other permaculture organizations making preparations to go there to do their own projects involving sustainable building and food production. I am really hoping that we can make a difference in that country – the people of Haiti have touched me and they deserve some positive, sustainable change.
Comment by Cory Brennan — February 11, 2010 @ 11:27 am
Cory, I have been, and still am, away from my desk, so am responding late and on-the-fly here.
I believe it will be hard for you to be fully objective here. And from your responses I can see this is the case. I can only ask you try. I said more than once that I wrote the article above reluctantly. You are taking me to task over a post I really didn’t wish to write. For me, I would much rather have spent the time I had to take out to examine these things on something more productive. It was not a task I relished in the slightest. But, I had several people expressing concerns, some at high levels as far as our permaculture peers go, and I felt the only way to deal with those concerns was to get people to discuss them openly. In my attempts to find out more about the group, questions were raised that I think are valid and that deserve some explanation. I put these questions up, in a bid to provide an open forum where we could try to get our head around what is for most people (obviously not for you) an unusual situation. Whatever you think about the organisation you belong to, you must recognise that for the rest of us the group is highly controversial and any connection with permaculture does raise questions many would prefer to ask now than later down the track.
I said in closing above: “In closing, please feel free to comment (with intelligence and civility, or you won’t get through) if you have thoughts/facts that might either: 1) put permaculturists at ease in regards to a relationship between permaculture relief efforts and Scientologists, or that 2) might help permaculturists worldwide determine whether they should have any connection with the organisation at all, and if so, what the nature of that ‘connection’ should be?”
Your comments do not ‘put us at ease’ so far, in that they don’t help us understand the points of concern raised above. People want to understand why the organisation is so aggressive, and why critics and ex-members state that it’s only about making money and putting down anyone that gets in the way. These claims are understandably of concern, and I do feel deserve some kind of explanation.
I don’t care if someone is catholic, muslim, a tree worshipper, or whatever, but if anti-social or cruel behaviour comes out of these groups then they must be called to task for that behaviour. There are court cases on-going for catholic priests who’ve sodomised those in their charge. We don’t ignore these things. In the same way, if Scientologists abuse their members and ex-members, particularly when it appears to be systemic within the group structure and ‘belief system’, as opposed to isolated events by rogue members, why should you expect us to ignore this?
As far as not informing you goes, I thought I had. Once the post above was up, I commented on the two other Haiti-related posts on this site to inform people about it, so that all subscribed to those comment threads would be notified automatically by email. It is far more efficient for me to notify in this way (many people at once) than emailing each person individually. I assumed you were subscribed to comment thread of the ‘Haiti Permacorps’ post written by Evan, as previously whenever someone commented you were quick to respond – a clear indication, to me, that you were subscribed to that thread. It looks like either I was making a wrong assumption, or you missed or deleted the notification because you were busy. If the former is the case, I certainly apologise.
I think if you dispassionately read what I wrote above you will see I was in no way making any personal attacks on you or any permaculturists on the ground in Haiti. Please show me where? I did my best to ensure it could not be construed thus, but it appears no matter how I word it I will not be able to get it right. If that is the case, then it’s clear that, in your mind, the questions raised above are no-go zones for non-scientoligists – that all the multitude of allegations of unethical behaviour should not be discussed or clarified. If you feel that way, then I’m sorry, but I don’t think that is right. We should be able to express concern, calmly and objectively, and have questions answered in the same fashion. While the internet is full of savage attacks on your organisation, my post was written as objectively and dispassionately as I could. There seems to be no recognition on your part on this. In addition to these comments here, you’ve written me rather passionately via email, putting me on the defensive, rather than simplifying the whole situation by just clarifying regarding the concerns of critics and ex-members, helping us to understand the aggressive behaviour of your organisation and the dishonest behaviour evidenced in previous disaster sites. (Note, I think it better to respond to you here than via email, so I’ll keep the conversation here if you don’t mind – particularly as it may encourage civility and objectively since we have an audience).
As far as interviewing you before writing this post, I could not imagine your being able to give an unbiased view. I far prefer this to be an open forum, where you can tell us your view, and others theirs, and people reading and participating can thus build their own view and make their own individuals minds up. From what I understand of your organisation, a lot of your own belief system is hidden from you until you’ve bought your way through various levels, so it’s impossible for me to know if what you tell me is with a full understanding of your own organisaiton or not – all part of many concerns. Being candid, the inherent difficulty you will face to be objective here and to understand the concerns of many, can be seen even here as you are only continually referring to the good work being done on the ground (of which I have no doubt), but there is no attempt to help us non-scientologists understand some of the basic elements of Scientology that cause us concern – like the exceptionally litigious nature of the organisation, and its tendency to be vindictive to both its members and non-members, and, significantly, concerns that the orgnanisation is an imaginative pyramid scheme that is about making money for people at the highest levels. The comment by Chris Eisenman above is a worthy example of our concerns. Having an experience I can’t lay claim to – 25 years in Scientology – he expresses that the organisation is about fleecing members. What are we to think when we read these things, not only from critics of the organisation, but also ex-members – particularly ex-members like Chris who appear very good-hearted and objective and far from ‘disgruntled’. In addition to these things, people are understandably concerned when 9/11 survivors are being diverted from psychological counselling by people who have dishonestly pushed themselves into ground zero to do just that. Do you expect people to have no concern about what will be happening in Haiti? This is an open forum – where you are welcome to help us understand these things. I would only ask that you do not attack the messenger, doing a task I really do not wish to undertake but feel I must because of multiple concerns by others that land on my desk.
In regards to talking to the five people you mention went to Haiti, I would love to. Please feel free to email me their details. I have tried both via this site, and also via the permaculturehaiti.org listserv to get information about who is ACTUALLY there, but until you told me I was unable to get any information about this. For all I knew, there wasn’t anyone there yet. If I go to the permaculturehaiti.org website and look in the ‘projects’ section, there is nothing there. The donations section seeks donations for maintaining the website, and above where donations could be sought for actual projects, it says it’s a work in progress. Most sections of the site say ‘check back later’. I emailed John Calvert for details about what’s actually happening, but got no response. If people don’t keep us updated we can’t know what’s going on. Ideally, wherever possible, we’d have reports coming in that we can post on this site. The reality is few will wish to support the work financially if they’re in the dark about what’s going on. I can’t promote work I can’t see. That is also why I am looking at going myself, as I find it so hard to get information. I would like to promote permaculture work on the ground, so we can show the power of permaculture to implement actual, sustainable solutions that include community involvement and training – not just for Haiti, but for other present and future disasters. (There will be many more yet, to be sure.)
There is not, from my part, and I couldn’t imagine from anyone else either, any possibility of a ‘returning vietnam-vet scenario’ here. But, recognising the good work on the ground still doesn’t make people feel at ease about the power-structure of the group itself, or people’s concerns about potential activities on the ground where traumatised individuals may be getting, like 9/11, diverted from treatment to receive questionable treatments invented by a science fiction writer who has apparently been repeatedly exposed as dishonest in regards to his life’s experience and qualifications, etc. These are all some of the things you haven’t endeavoured to help us understand as yet. If you truly look at this objectively, you’ll have to see that these are valid questions that we would be stupid not to question and feel some concern about.
If you are busy, I understand. Forget about this for now, and come back to it when you have a chance. This post isn’t going anywhere.
Comment by Craig Mackintosh — February 12, 2010 @ 10:04 pm
Craig,
I would like to gently point out some illogics in your response. You say you felt I would be biased in my responses, but ex-Scientologists are NOT biased? Any reporter routinely gets both sides of the story, because they know that BOTH sides are biased. Ex-members of any group who make a career out of criticism are always biased, Craig. These guys cannot say one nice thing about Scientology to save themselves. Try them.
What you’re saying is that people with religious beliefs who actually study that religion cannot be trusted to explain those beliefs or to know anything about their religion, because they might have affinity for what they study. Only people who hate that religion can be trusted on the subject.
You wrote to John asking him about on the ground reports, but you didn’t write to me, even though I am the one that started this whole controversy by flying people to Haiti on Scientology-chartered planes. Why wouldn’t you write me to ask who I got there and what they were actually doing? To find out if they were even involved with Scientology AT ALL? You wrote this article full of concerns that you didn’t even verify were true. They are not legitimate concerns.
Now, I am being asked to publicly defend my religious beliefs on a permaculture site that has nothing to do with religion, because no one bothered to find out what had actually happened before going off into some fantasy about a plot by the church to do something or other about permaculture that might be “bad”.
By the way, I DID post on PRI that I had five volunteers going, and the information is also clearly stated on my web site, which has been posted on every one of my posts, which you apparently did not check. Permacultureguild.us
I don’t have the most recent report from the ground up on the web site yet, but I did send it to you via email and you acknowledged receiving it, a few days ago.
I want to point out that the ONLY reason Scientology even came up on PRI is because you asked me to post info on who was involved in getting people to Haiti. I complied to your request. So why are people “high up” in permaculture concerned with this?
Does that really seem fair and unbiased? Now I’m having to take time out to defend my religion when all I really wanted to do is get people to Haiti fast. But if you want me to talk about why I like Scientology on here (which I’m making very clear, was never my intention), I will do so.
I would like to write an article about what the volunteers who are going there are doing and I will give the details about that in the article. I hope PRI will post it – I think readers will find it interesting. It is quite nice what they are doing there – they have saved lives which is why I wanted to get them there fast.
As for Scientology, it saved my life. I have found this religion to be a very deep and broad spiritual philosophy that is also practical and useful in every aspect of my life, that embraces everything that permaculture stands for. The way I would suggest anybody find out about any subject, including Scientology, is to go to the source material about it and look for yourself. Read some books by Hubbard, and decide for yourself if it has value. I would say that anybody who hasn’t looked at what it is for themselves doesn’t really know what they’re talking about. That is true of permaculture, Scientology, anything.
I have personally worked with the Volunteer Ministers and these people have very large hearts and truly care about people. They are sacrificing a lot to be there, and critics have no clue about that because they certainly haven’t gone there to do that. They haven’t been side by side cleaning up the dead bodies with these people, to SEE what they are actually doing. They are just making unproven accusations, which I’m now asked to defend. Is there a responsibility to LOOK, before assuming? To me, that is an essential principle of permaculture. There is plenty of info about the positive things they are doing – I posted some of it.
Scientology believes that there are eight dynamics in life, that are concentric in nature. They start with self, and move to romantic relationships and family, then to groups, then to mankind, then to the natural world, then to the physical universe, then to spirits, and then to a Supreme Being.
We are all responsible to live ethically and with correct exchange, with all of these dynamics. That means we cannot take from the upper dynamics to serve the lower ones. The lower dynamics are dependent upon the upper ones and we have responsibility to care for those, just as we would care for ourselves. That means we have a responsibility to care for mankind and the natural world just as we would care for ourselves individually.
Ethical behavior is defined as the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics, meaning that one must consider how one’s actions affect all life forms before one takes action.
One of the principles tenets of Scientology is personal integrity, which is considered more important than one’s immediate life. What personal integrity is defined as in Scientology is “What is true for you is what you have observed for yourself” and Hubbard exhorts people to observe everything in life for themselves, including Scientology, and consider if it is harmful, helpful, decent, etc, for themselves. This is read at every Sunday sermon the church gives.
As for the accusations the critics made, how would you like it if someone started accusing PRI of being a bunch of child molesters and you had to defend that? Priests were tried in a court of law and actually convicted of molestation – the accusations you’re making of the church are rumor, not convictions in a court of law. Is being innocent before proven guilty part of people care?
The church has been involved in DEFENDING lawsuits brought by litigious ex-members who are trying to make some money from it. An investigation of actual facts, not internet rumor, will reveal that. The vast majority of lawsuits have been defensive, and we have won about 99% of them because they were frivolous and unfounded. The church has had no choice but to be “litigious”. Critics are extremely harrassive in the legal system, trying to depose church workers who have no relation to their lawsuit, making blanket accusations of horrible stuff they have no proof of (and get kicked out of court because of it), and then using media about the lawsuit, or post it on the internet to inflame people, etc. It is very ugly stuff. If you took a real unbiased look at this Craig, I think you would find out that the critics are the ones with a manipulative agenda – they have gotten you to attack a worthy project without even trying to really inspect for yourself first.
Cory
Comment by Cory Brennan — February 12, 2010 @ 11:16 pm
I would like to respond to one other thing you said. Your article and comment, above, are both full of rumor of “apparent” misbehavior by the church. I think this is the crux of the matter. I don’t think it is right to publicly air ugly rumors (and these are very ugly accusations), no matter how civilized the expression of that rumor is. I don’t think it serves any purpose but to distract people from legitimate work. I do feel that people should take the time and care to find more out about each other before making assumptions and going with ugly rumor – to me, that is part of people care.
The other point not addressed is, why is this even an issue? I don’t know of any attempt by the church to position itself with permaculture. Why is anybody even concerned with it?
I really like you and respect your work quite a lot, Craig. I find your articles intelligent, informative and useful. That is one reason this surprised me so much, because it seemed out of character from the thoughtfulness and care I usually see, so I guess I have reacted to that to some degree and I apologize for that. I hope you can see something of why I feel this coverage has been unfair to me and to other Scientologists who may also be permaculturists.
I do appreciate your suggestions that I address the issues that have been aired, and I ask that anybody that has specific concerns please do write me to get my side of the story. I’m also asking that people please try to differentiate between accusations/rumor and actual facts, and try to stick to facts, please.
Comment by Cory Brennan — February 12, 2010 @ 11:42 pm
Craig,
I am very busy right now but I do believe it is not good to let this type of thing sit. I do truly get tired of handling the same ol untrue rumor lines over and over so I don’t do it sometimes, but after consideration I feel I should address more of the specifics of your post.
I do not think there is anything wrong with people being concerned about things they’ve heard or read. I do want to clarify that. I do think there is something wrong with not going to that organization to get their side of the story, that is all. I understand there is a lot of controversy on the ‘net about Scientology and it is hard to understand why without the whole history and a longer post than I want to write right now. So I’ll try to address some of the individual concerns.
The belief system of Scientology is not hidden from us until we get to a certain point, that is very untrue. But that particular rumor influenced you to not talk to me about it, didn’t it?
Hubbard wrote dozens of books and gave thousands of lectures about Scientology and the vast majority of them are available to anybody, including non Scientologists. The church has made an effort to get these materials to religious scholars and other independent bodies to examine. They can be found in many libraries – one does not have to be a Scientologist to get access to any of the material. Go into any church and look at the amount of material available in the library of that church. It is a huge amount of material available to anybody Scientologist to study and the church has made a point to make it available to non Scientologists as well.
Most of the majorly important key beliefs are available in beginning courses of Scientology – they remain thematic throughout the most advanced studies. Hubbard believes that there are fundamental truths that open doors to many other truths and those fundamentals are the most important to isolate. He approached spirituality scientifically, and searched, via scientific method, for those fundamental underpinnings of existence and those are the most important aspects of Scientology. I feel permaculture has isolated many of the fundamentals of the natural world and that’s what makes it so effective. I feel the same way about Scientology. I also feel that way about a number of other philosophies – I personally like to seek alignment and beneficial connection amongst a diversity of belief systems and worldviews. It enriches me and my understanding of things.
There are some counseling processes in Scientology that are confidential – it is believed that one cannot benefit from them until one achieves a certain level. But there is no requirement to achieve that level and many do not. People get plenty of benefits from the substantial amount of material available to anybody.
The church is not a pyramid scheme. Upper management is paid less than some parish ministers. I know this personally because I’ve personally seen the tax returns when I did some work for the church in that area. There is no group of individuals who are getting wealthy, the money is used for church expansion.
Re: 9/11, I need to ask you, what makes you think psychological counseling is what everybody needs or is the best way to heal trauma? I have never chosen that medium to heal myself mentally or emotionally – my personal experience and observation has been that it is not really that helpful or workable. There are many people who would turn to some form of spirituality to heal themselves rather than psychology. Psychology has a monopoly on care of a person’s spirit and emotion, but they shouldn’t. Diversity is a good thing in an ecosystem and in human systems – people should have free choice. Scientologists give what is called “assists” at disasters. People don’t have to accept these unless they want to, they have free choice, unlike those who are involuntarily incarcerated in mental hospitals, for instance. Many assists are delivered by word of mouth – someone had good results and brings a friend or family member.
These are simple procedures (like getting a person to look around and become oriented in his environment) that can help calm a person, bring him out of shock, and help get him oriented. Other assists are physical procedures that can help renew one’s energy, like the “touch assist.” These have been invaluable to exhausted rescue workers. Many people have found these very helpful and useful. In some disaster areas, Red Cross workers and other disaster relief workers are using these methods because they have personally observed how helpful they are to people. But this is far from the only thing Scientologists do at disaster sites. They do basically whatever is needed to help, and they are good at it which is why they are invited to be first responders. They would NOT be invited back and allowed into areas other lay organizations do not have easy access to if they were not effective. Please just think about that. They are in the main camps at every disaster, working hand in hand with Red Cross, and all other major organizations. That doesn’t happen to groups who are there for purely selfish reasons. People’s emotions are very high in disasters and if a group was there just sucking resources instead of helping, they would not be tolerated very long.
One reason I wanted permaculturists to go in with Scientologists is I felt they would more quickly be introduced to other organizations that could fund some major permaculture projects. I am waiting to hear back from the permaculturists there now, but it sounds like this may have been achieved – they are working with UNICEF right now to possibly build a bunch of compost toilets for orphanages, per last report and there are several other projects ongoing. This is the exact effect I hoped might be created – that being right in the center of things would enable permaculturists to get their message out there into the mainstream. So really, one could say I was using Scientology to forward the aims of permaculture, as sneaky and nefarious as that may be
I know that VM’s are nimble and can move fast, think with new things and respond to them, more so than some of the more bureaucratic organizations like the Red Cross. I briefed them on permaculture before these guys went, in hopes of getting their help to get these guys the right connections to really make a difference. The response of the VMs is that they love permaculture, they see its value, they want more. It works, its needed, it’s helping Haitians, it’s got long term ethical implications (which is another key tenet of Scientology – ethical behavior takes the long, seven generation view, though Scientologists may say it differently). They called me to specifically ask me to get more experts down there because they are needed and are being effective.
I’d like to address your statements about Hubbard last. This man has a track record of being a very productive humanitarian. He created one of the most successful (by study and statistic) drug rehab programs on the planet, he created a program to rehabilitate criminals rather than incarcerate them (he believes that any criminal behavior can be rehabilitated, and that all people are decent at their core), inner city literacy programs all over the world, etc.
One could accuse anybody of being a fraud – the proof is in what people get out of what that person has done. For that, I again suggest that people read something that he wrote, and see for themselves if it makes sense or is useful or meaningful. The majority of people who do that and look for themselves, find it helpful. I have found a great deal of wisdom and truth in the writings.
I don’t consider the organization perfect. No organization is. But there are many, many positive elements that critics just do not acknowledge. I personally believe that if someone wants to heal or rehab a system that has problems, it is best done by observing the system, being on the ground, and working WITH the system, not against it. Critics are at war with Scientology, like monoculturists are at war with nature. And their view of Scientology is about as narrow as a row of artifically fertilized corn, in my opinion. I go into the system, and work with the system as a designer, to improve it, using all the principles of permaculture to do so. I believe that is a far more responsible route than being an armchair critic, hiding behind one’s computer screen.
I hope this answers more questions as to why I wanted first responder permaculturists to go in with the VMs. Please, if you have more questions, ask. I will post updated info from the five on the ground and the new team going in as soon as I have it.
Comment by Cory Brennan — February 13, 2010 @ 1:57 am
OK, last post but these are blogs from VMs and one of the permaculturists in Haiti. This gives an on-the-ground idea of what they are actually dealing with and getting done.
http://ellenthevm.blogspot.com/
http://volunteerministers.org/blog/helping-doctors-haiti-university-miami-hospital-or.html
http://www.24hourforums.com/forum129/29630.html
From Nicole Metzner, a permaculturist in Haiti working on sanitation:
Our first very small project was setting up a latrine for the Volunteer Ministers camp, so that all those wonderful people who are working very hard, have the means of staying healthy! This was the first half day and then we started going out into the town.
The general hospital of Port au Prince was in a very bad shape when we arrived first, no solid waste management, meaning: garbage, medical waste, body parts all went into different piles anywhere people could find a place to dispose. The area of the Swiss Red Cross = maternity ward was especially bad, so the babies, who were born over the last couple of days were inhaling garbage with their first breath. It was heart-breaking and we focused on getting rid of this situation as soon as possible, so that in the end the Swiss Red Cross was able to set up another tent and thereby able to treat more patients than before. The area is clean now and is kept like this by locals, who are employed by the hospital administration. The funding for this came / will come from IMC, who work very close together with the local hospital administration. The second target there was getting rid of open defecation and urination to promote public health and avoid the spreading of diseases. This unfortunately could only be done by implementing portable toilets, since even though we advocated composting toilets the hospital administration would not let us do it. Anyway again it was more important to get sanitary conditions in as soon as possible as to fight for a longer time for a more sustainable solution. I am still convinced that we managed to plant a little seed in some peoples minds. (The implementation of this project was mostly managed by Rodrigo Silva, who is working relentlessly on getting the job done and Andrew Larson)
I moved on to another project, which will be implemented with UNICEF as soon as the project gets approved. This will include the implementation of water, sanitation, solid waste management and hygiene promotion in 60 orphanages in Port au Prince. I will let you know as soon as it gets approved and give you the details. The idea behind this is to implement UD composting toilets, so that the products can be used in a garden (teaching of the use of urine as fertilizer, the idea of creating compost out of feces, the re-use of hand-washing water to flush the toilets, general hygiene education and so on) Our main focus lies on training locals, who will work with us, so they can work as trainers on the same topic in the future. Regarding materials which have to be used, we got strong requirements from UNICEF, but are trying to work on using local materials as much as possible. Re-use of rubble, which can be found plenty here right now, in the drainage canals for showers and hand washing stations.
Again I will let you know when I know more.
While waiting for the approval we are not sitting around, but we rehabilitated a structure in front of the University of Miami Hospital, a field hospital in the airport camp, where we also live. Neither the patients nor their family members had a bathing place until yesterday, even though the hospital was set up immediately after the earthquake as far as I know. The facilities we used for open defecation and urination, since they provided a little privacy and public health that close to a field hospital was not taken into account, since more pressuring issues had to be handled first.
I want to make sure, that everything I am writing here is not supposed to put anyone in a bad light, because so far everyone I met down here, regardless of nationality and organisation she/he is working with is doing as much as possible to bring order back into this country and help where immediate needs have to be met.
In addition we provided water and sanitation and hygiene knowledge to the volunteer ministers, who were setting up an orphanage, which already has 100 children living there. Those children were living in 3 different orphanages before the earthquake and are now taken care of, loved and educated by local teachers and volunteers as well as international volunteers.
Since we are trying to work with locally available materials as much as possible we do not need anything right now. (If you could provide me with a hot shower and a little less noise, while planes start and land about 50 meters close to the tent in which I am sleeping I would be the happiest person you can imagine.;-) )
What would be needed and appreciated for the orphans we are taking care of are toothbrushes, about 100 or more and fluoride pills.
Aside from those bigger things we are all handling different smaller projects, work just does not stop. The army asked us to help with the assessment of wells they have, this is probably going to take place in the next days, we are driving around on motorcycles to assess the most immediate needs of orphanages we know of and involve locals as much as possible.
A little sidestory to our shower project yesterday, which made me so happy, that I almost cried.
While working on the showers with 5 male locals assigned to us by the hospital command, a young woman of about 20 years approached us and asked for work. We told her, that we could not pay here and could not even provide food or water for her. She wanted to help us regardless of any of those things. She was working twice as hard as the men and I happen to run into the in charge of local personnel, who I met and talked to earlier about what we were willing to do for the hospital. I told him about the young woman and recommended her to him in case he has the possibility to hire more people. Since we so far always kept our promises, build showers for the doctors earlier and finished the project on the patient showers as promised, he had a lot of trust in my recommendation. Quote: If you guys recommend her I trust you. He asked her to come over, took her information and hired her as a member of the team!
Comment by Cory Brennan — February 13, 2010 @ 3:00 am
I happened upon your site, as one does, by accident and became curious. What is permaculture? Oh…how interesting. What kind of classes and internships? (There are wonderful opportunities in the science fields for young people to expand their vision, get new skills) Then I see comments about Scientology (I’ve been an active Scientologist, for the last 38 years!)And, I know a bit (just a bit) about the relief efforts of the Volunteer Ministers in Haiti. But why the article, and why the controversy? I’ve read thru your article and the comments. Not absolutely with the best “study technology” that I’ve learned as a Scientologist (lol)…i.e., looking up words I don’t know in dictionary. But, you’ve got to admit, there are a lot of words there!
Here’s two things I’d like to say:
1. I’m impressed with what the Permaculture movement is doing. The master plan is practical, the science exciting. I’m a professional garden designer and coach and do seasonal maintenance. Nothing real adventurous or exotic, but I do love gardening and my mission is to get people in touch with the outdoors.
2. Scientologists like to help (actually human beings in any kind of decent shape like to help). They also feel like they have more tools to help others than anywhere else, specifically in the area of himself as an individual…helping him become his own unique, talented and innately responsible creative self. Helping him become more extroverted and causative. Achieving that, he’s now capable and eager to confront and handle his world. Scientologists are opposed to psychiatric methods of labeling and medicating people, knowing that this will result in less effective person who’s now more toxic. (Just like the permaculturists, who I presume are opposed to chemicals poluting the farmlands, Scientologists are against worsening the person’s mental and physical state thru use of psych meds.)If an airplane full of psychiatrists and psychiatric volunteers went to Haiti, they’d come equiped with pills. Scientologists come ready to bathe and assist in any way needed, and with a simple non-invasive procedure (touch assist) that can help bring the person more in communication with their body and present time and start the healing process.
That’s my 2 cents worth!
Jeannie
Comment by Jeannie in Sacramento — February 13, 2010 @ 4:49 am
I guess I would have to say that if Scientology members are passionate about helping others and would like to incorporate into their ministers the principles of permaculture, then by all means do so. Do I personally agree with Scientology? No, but that is my own opinion. Would I allow funding by Scientologist for any project that I might do in the future, no. I would have to say that Earth Care, People Care and Fair Share seem to be missing at present from their core values. BUT I would encourage each member of its organization to actually get involved in learning permaculture and gain a new perspective on ways to reach out, get dirty and actually do the work…not simply fund it. If they do have the funding, they can afford to train up new aspiring permaculturalists within their organization and then send them out to the disaster areas…or better yet, use some of that financing to find ways of improving the lives of others to prevent disaster from reaching the disenfranchised door in the first place.
The people in disaster prone areas are deserving of all the help they can get. We all work in our own way to bring that aid to them. I don’t think we should feel guilt for not taking on projects we may feel compromise our core values and moral obligations. If a company or organization feels passionate about permaculture, they can get involved and personally learn how to help. Money isn’t always the answer, and sometimes money can actually be the problem.
Comment by Angela — February 20, 2010 @ 2:37 am
Hello.
I’m operations and logistics coordinator for PermaCorps for Haiti, a project of the USPI. PermaCorps has steering committee and advisory board members from permaculture institutes around the world, and we have to answer to them as well as every single volunteer we send into the field. We do not and will not send them in with people who don’t meet our training and certification standards as first or second responders, particularly to a largely unsecured location. We follow modern medical trauma protocols, including those for psychiatric trauma treatment, and would never knowingly partner with an individual or group that doesn’t do the same in any emergency recovery situation.
Comment by Brett Schnaper — March 2, 2010 @ 11:17 am
I just thought I would drop a line to let people know what has actually happened with the permaculture team that used Volunteer Minister planes to get to Haiti, amidst all this speculation about it.
Six permaculturists went to Haiti as first responders via Volunteer Minister chartered planes. Five are still there. They have been engaged in a number of projects, mainly focused on sanitation and creating clean water supplies as these are the two most life threatening issues. They have been teaching Haitians how to safely create compost latrines as well as building them, and they were able to create sanitary conditions at the main hospital in Haiti which undoubtedly saved lives. The Nature Healing Nature team has been teaching Haitians to filter their own water, which has been compromised by lack of sewage systems and other toxic exposure. They have undoubtedly saved lives too as bottled water was not reaching all the areas for some time. And the knowledge they’ve imparted will continue to be used and hopefully spread.
The teams are currently working with the Haitian gov’t, SOIL (oursoil.org), UNICEF and other organizations to work out some broad scale projects including potentially installing compost toilets in orphanages and other structures, and teaching permaculture techniques to various NGOs who can then train others. They have an opportunity to create some very good long term effects in Haiti that will continue to ripple outward from their base.
This is exactly what I had hoped for and why I wanted them to go in with an experienced disaster team that could provide a stable base for them to operate from and help string some connections to other organizations. My first phase goal in initiating this project has been accomplished (lives saved by going in as first responders, connections established with NGOs and the Haitian gov’t to create long term solutions). We are moving into the second phase and I will probably be traveling to Haiti in April with a Haitian student from the recent PDC I taught in Little Haiti, to assist with second phase projects.
It is important in permaculture to observe systems and what they are actually doing – speculation about it only goes so far in usefulness and sometimes can prevent people from seeing or even trying to look at what is really going on. I strongly believe in tolerance as a backbone of diverse systems and so will work with any organization that is truly open to applying permaculture principles. Each of us has the freedom to make our own moral choices on who we work with and why. I would ask that as permaculturists, we might observe the system for ourselves (which is essential for any truly sustainable design) before coming to conclusions about what that system is doing.
I’d like to acknowledge the bravery, dedication and hard work of the volunteer permaculturists who went there early. They have been dealing with some horrific conditions and have made them much less horrific. They have learned things about being first responders in disasters that they will be able to share with other permaculturists who might be interested in doing that. What are the advantages, what are the disadvantages of going in early?
I will continue to share these experiences on our web site and via other channels. I am excited to see some of the other projects that are springing up as a result of the permaculturehaiti and permacorp web sites and various discussions, such as the noramise.org project. Permaculture does have so many of the answers that are needed for Haiti, and they so deserve the help. I’d like to also thank all the “backlines” volunteer help and the donors who helped get the volunteers there, helped provide valuable research for them, and helped fund their projects.
Comment by Cory Brennan — March 3, 2010 @ 5:46 am
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