Comments on: U.S. Feeds One Quarter of its Grain to Cars While Hunger is on the Rise

By: Gordon Williams

Gordon Williams — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:59:10 +0000

Without a doubt the current model of alcohol fuel and food production are innefficient and in my mind comletely unetical.

The work of permaculturist David Plume (www.permaculture.com) provides a model for regenerative fuel and food economies.

By: Tim Auld

Tim Auld — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:45:45 +0000

Sam,

The ‘large agricultural concerns’ are taking advantage of the subsidies, but it doesn’t mean others can’t to their profit (e.g. permies).

Ethanol as a motor fuel is not a joke. It was the fuel of choice before crude oil derivatives, creating sustainable local business for farmers, and was used for example by Japanese fighter planes during WW2. It is cooler burning, can get better mileage because it can handle higher compression ratios and can burn more completely, and doesn’t have the toxic components typically found in oil derivatives. Done properly it doesn’t have all the ecological problems of conventionally grown corn. The process can return nutrients to the soil and sequester carbon.

David Blume (a permie) has lots of material about it:

http://www.permaculture.com/node/518

http://www.permaculture.com/node/490

By: Sam

Sam — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 14:59:54 +0000

Ethanol produced from corn in the US is nothing but a government subsidy to large agricultural concerns. As a motor fuel ethanol is pretty much a joke anyway. I can get better efficiency with it running a boiler.

Produce what you need locally and don’t concern yourself with getting cheap grain from the US. 15 years from now there will be no cheap grain from the US anyway. We will barely be able to feed ourselves by then.

By: Thomas Fischbacher

Thomas Fischbacher — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 17:27:13 +0000

Ed,

while the general idea underlying EROI considerations is attractive and certainly seems valid, judging from what I’ve seen so far, I get the impression that it very often actually has been done very wrong.

Do you happen to have a good source that explains how to do EROI analysis properly?

By: Ed Straker

Ed Straker — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 04:19:47 +0000

On the face of it, it seems rather optimistic about the future of food should we just ban ethanol. However, how much of this grain is in effect zero EROI because of the fossil fuel feedstocks? And so, how much grain will the US really be producing post-peak? We’ve got a problem even with ethanol removed from the equation.

By: JBob

JBob — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 03:22:24 +0000

Government subsidies and mandates distort markets make it impossible to make rational economic decisions. Our armchair conjecture isn’t worth much until accurate price signals are allowed to inform the market.

By: Nick

Nick — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 21:41:23 +0000

@Max Your not understanding how it works, they are not GIVEN cheap grain, they are LOANED cheap grain, and since our grain is subsidized, it’s much cheaper than the grain produced by their own local farmers. Therefore farmers will buy our cheap GM grain, and those who don’t will eventually go out of business, due to their inability to compete with that price point, leaving the people of that country completely dependent on imported food i.e. Haiti. There is a short film called “A Thousand Suns” which explains this process very well.

And in regards to the comment James made, he is absolutely right. Grain is better left for birds, NOT humans.

By: Isaac

Isaac — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:09:22 +0000

Of course there are many issues at play here. Number one is that far too many GM grains are being grown in the first place. Not just in the US but also in Canada. For the record I am 100% against any GM foods or plants or animals or whatever.

If some cropland is to be turned over to ethanol production then it would likely do far better with hemp or another plant.

In an ideal scenario, countries that receive food “aid” would brought into an agreement whereby, in say, 3 years they would be weaned off of the food shipments. Of course this would have to go hand in hand with debt forgiveness, removal of the conditions on loans whereby they have to let bigAgro in there to run everything and they would need real aid money that they could use to foster this transition. They would then be in a position once again to feed themselves sustainably at the local level.

By: James

James — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:44:01 +0000

@Lisa,
Are you saying you would like a diet that consisted of GM corn? GM corn should only be used for fuel, not food. That being said, all GM food should be banned outright, everywhere, it’s just to dangerous.

By: Max

Max — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:01:17 +0000

@ Nick, I wouldn’t say I totally disagree but I do disagree to a large extend!! In fact, cheap, for them affortable food is not the last but the First thing that poor & hungry people need, simply in order to not starve to death!!!
Its certainly not a long term solution, but due to all the subventions in form of all kind of foods which are given to many 3rd World countries, the farmers are already unable to compete!!!
@ Isaac, you are right, localized sustainable agriculture produced and consumed locally, is the long term solution but untill that is reached in all the 3rd World Countries it will still take quite a while… And that is also only possible if local farmers are supported and afterwards subventions stopped, in a way, that causes no further food shortage!!!!
and Until then, do you recommend to simply cut off the food supply and thereby literally cut off millions of peoples lives?
And last, @ James; thats simply idiotic to say!!! It says that even if the entire US Grain would be used for fuel, it would cover at most 18% of just the US fuel… Whereas one quarter of that same grain only could satisfy 330 Million people for one whole year!!! I don’t know what more to say…
I do like the idea of using ethanol as energy in general, since it is a renewable source, but why for gods sake use food, which could and would safe billions of human lives if used efficiently???? Ethanol can be acquired through pretty much any plant…!!! They should rather focus on a more efficient ethanol source, which isnt food!
Anyway, hoping for good responses…