Comments on: Free Hot Water from Compost Wheelie Bin http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/11/free-hot-water-from-compost-wheelie-bin/ Permaculture News, Commentary and Worldwide Projects. Tue, 22 May 2012 06:34:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: InBox485 http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/11/free-hot-water-from-compost-wheelie-bin/#comment-232303 InBox485 Mon, 12 Dec 2011 15:58:46 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2315#comment-232303 I'd be leery about really getting much heat off that unless it is one of the full sized totes that municipal trash systems use. I've tried unshredded compost in a 32 gallon tote, and got no noticeable heat, and while the shredded one got at least warm, it was too heavy to even wheel around. I don't plan on messing with a full sized one any time soon. Also, I've been experimenting with different mixing techniques, and nothing has compared to finely shredding and mixing everything together. I haven't gotten into the whole balancing ratios of carbon to nitrogen, but just in terms of getting the hot pile so that you can stop worrying about various toxins, or so you can make use of the heat, shredding it all together has worked by far the best. I've had very little luck with layering. I could see some use for patching in a system like this into a hot water line right at the point where the shower head is. That could reduce the amount of time it take to warm up a shower. For that, I would have the water line, but instead of a coil, I'd have something like one or more 4" pipes where the water came in the bottom, the pipe was filled with lava stone, and water came out the top. That way you would get immediate hot water, and the cold water between the system and the water tank would get the extra heat from the stones so that you wouldn't have the sudden dip and rise from the cold water that would rush through and the hot water behind it. Another thought is to have the water passively rise into an insulated storage tank in a semi closed loop where check valves allow new water to flow in and only the hot water to flow out when used. To me the best use for stuff like that is for passive area warming. For beds or ponds you have the pile at a lower elevation with a closed loop of water that rises once heated to the bed or pond and then returns once cooled back down from the bed or pond. For home or green house (or tent) heat, you run an air conduit so that hot air rises to one side of the structure and cold air sinks from the opposite side. Gravity will do all the pumping here. No fans, radiators, pumps etc. needed. I’d be leery about really getting much heat off that unless it is one of the full sized totes that municipal trash systems use. I’ve tried unshredded compost in a 32 gallon tote, and got no noticeable heat, and while the shredded one got at least warm, it was too heavy to even wheel around. I don’t plan on messing with a full sized one any time soon. Also, I’ve been experimenting with different mixing techniques, and nothing has compared to finely shredding and mixing everything together. I haven’t gotten into the whole balancing ratios of carbon to nitrogen, but just in terms of getting the hot pile so that you can stop worrying about various toxins, or so you can make use of the heat, shredding it all together has worked by far the best. I’ve had very little luck with layering.

I could see some use for patching in a system like this into a hot water line right at the point where the shower head is. That could reduce the amount of time it take to warm up a shower. For that, I would have the water line, but instead of a coil, I’d have something like one or more 4″ pipes where the water came in the bottom, the pipe was filled with lava stone, and water came out the top. That way you would get immediate hot water, and the cold water between the system and the water tank would get the extra heat from the stones so that you wouldn’t have the sudden dip and rise from the cold water that would rush through and the hot water behind it.

Another thought is to have the water passively rise into an insulated storage tank in a semi closed loop where check valves allow new water to flow in and only the hot water to flow out when used.

To me the best use for stuff like that is for passive area warming. For beds or ponds you have the pile at a lower elevation with a closed loop of water that rises once heated to the bed or pond and then returns once cooled back down from the bed or pond. For home or green house (or tent) heat, you run an air conduit so that hot air rises to one side of the structure and cold air sinks from the opposite side. Gravity will do all the pumping here. No fans, radiators, pumps etc. needed.

]]> By: peter furze http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/11/free-hot-water-from-compost-wheelie-bin/#comment-175098 peter furze Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:09:02 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2315#comment-175098 trying your system now, but using 200 litre drums, so far so good but i think i will need 4 drums to keep up a consistant supply of hot water. pete trying your system now, but using 200 litre drums, so far so good but i think i will need 4 drums to keep up a consistant supply of hot water.
pete

]]> By: Kat http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/11/free-hot-water-from-compost-wheelie-bin/#comment-67730 Kat Mon, 24 Jan 2011 02:04:54 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2315#comment-67730 Heya Fabulous find, great technology! I'm keen to give this a go at my local community garden, particularly since our local council are incentivising people to switch to the small wheelie bins. I love the Jean Pain method, and enjoyed the hot showers powered this way up at Zaytuna last year. But, big pile composting can a bit confronting for some people with small back yards! So, this seems like a really nice compact (and tidy) suburban solution. I would be delighted to hear more from anyone who has tried this out at wheelie bin scale. Kat Heya

Fabulous find, great technology!

I’m keen to give this a go at my local community garden, particularly since our local council are incentivising people to switch to the small wheelie bins. I love the Jean Pain method, and enjoyed the hot showers powered this way up at Zaytuna last year. But, big pile composting can a bit confronting for some people with small back yards! So, this seems like a really nice compact (and tidy) suburban solution. I would be delighted to hear more from anyone who has tried this out at wheelie bin scale.

Kat

]]> By: leigh blackall http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/11/free-hot-water-from-compost-wheelie-bin/#comment-48072 leigh blackall Mon, 17 May 2010 05:03:12 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2315#comment-48072 I have also discovered that the HDPE is giving off a smell, so I would second the idea of using an alternative to poly pipe. Also, I'd like to know how you wrapped a 20mm polypipe so tightly.. and how many metres it was. I need 100metres of 30mm pipe to heat about 90L. Does yours feed into an insulated storage tank perhaps? I have also discovered that the HDPE is giving off a smell, so I would second the idea of using an alternative to poly pipe. Also, I’d like to know how you wrapped a 20mm polypipe so tightly.. and how many metres it was. I need 100metres of 30mm pipe to heat about 90L. Does yours feed into an insulated storage tank perhaps?

]]> By: Darren J. Doherty http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/11/free-hot-water-from-compost-wheelie-bin/#comment-40416 Darren J. Doherty Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:37:57 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2315#comment-40416 G'day, Nice work on this one....would be interested to see how long the pipe can survive this environment....we have been playing with this one for a while now both on a small scale (compost shower see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILzxOH6n7-c) and larger scale (home scale hydronic heating systems - see: http://picasaweb.google.com/permaculture.biz/CompostHouseHeating) and have found that LDPE & HDPE pipe degrades in the heated environment of a compost pile...Coated aluminium, copper or Stainless/Inox pipe doesn't suffer over the journey, though of course have both a higher emergy and dollar cost: however have a longer life span than the plastic....Another interesting fact is that you can smell the plastic in the water heated in these systems which obviously can't be good as it must be decomposing in enough for the outgas to cause the odour in the water...No such issue with the non-ferrous metal pipes... Anyways its great to see that this kind of innovation is out there and serves to show good Permaculture thinking in action.... All the best, Darren J. Doherty G’day, Nice work on this one….would be interested to see how long the pipe can survive this environment….we have been playing with this one for a while now both on a small scale (compost shower see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILzxOH6n7-c) and larger scale (home scale hydronic heating systems – see: http://picasaweb.google.com/permaculture.biz/CompostHouseHeating) and have found that LDPE & HDPE pipe degrades in the heated environment of a compost pile…Coated aluminium, copper or Stainless/Inox pipe doesn’t suffer over the journey, though of course have both a higher emergy and dollar cost: however have a longer life span than the plastic….Another interesting fact is that you can smell the plastic in the water heated in these systems which obviously can’t be good as it must be decomposing in enough for the outgas to cause the odour in the water…No such issue with the non-ferrous metal pipes…

Anyways its great to see that this kind of innovation is out there and serves to show good Permaculture thinking in action….

All the best,

Darren J. Doherty

]]> By: Craig Mackintosh http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/11/free-hot-water-from-compost-wheelie-bin/#comment-40232 Craig Mackintosh Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:19:18 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2315#comment-40232 Jean Pain method: http://permaculture.org.au/2009/05/18/jean-pain-composting-all-the-energy-you-need-from-the-garden/ Jean Pain method:

http://permaculture.org.au/2009/05/18/jean-pain-composting-all-the-energy-you-need-from-the-garden/

]]> By: Nicollas http://permaculture.org.au/2010/01/11/free-hot-water-from-compost-wheelie-bin/#comment-40231 Nicollas Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:18:06 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=2315#comment-40231 It seems you've reinvented the Jean Pain method (hot water + biogaz from compost) It seems you’ve reinvented the Jean Pain method (hot water + biogaz from compost)

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