Comments on: If Nothing Else, Save Farming http://permaculture.org.au/2009/11/17/if-nothing-else-save-farming/ Changing the world one site at a time Thu, 18 Mar 2010 08:07:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Tim Auld http://permaculture.org.au/2009/11/17/if-nothing-else-save-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-38411 Tim Auld Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:32:07 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1998#comment-38411 Hi Tom, Glad to hear Tim Flannery is starting to get it too! Unfortunately I can't say that I am related to Jim and Carol, but good luck with helping them to see the light. Hi Tom,

Glad to hear Tim Flannery is starting to get it too!

Unfortunately I can’t say that I am related to Jim and Carol, but good luck with helping them to see the light.

]]> By: Tom Toogood http://permaculture.org.au/2009/11/17/if-nothing-else-save-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-38410 Tom Toogood Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:19:12 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1998#comment-38410 I agree with Tim Auld, that Monbiot's faith in electric powered farm machinery is pie in the sky stuff...but at least he mentions Permaculture food forests, & that we have to be open to to that solution....and what a great service to the planet he's doing, with his relentless public campaign to prove Peak Oil and climate change are urgent realities. So lets all email him to "convert" him completely to the solution we know will work. I'm sure he'll also get a host of emails from the very vigorous UK Permaculture & Transition town movements in the UK to educate him. (you can order their wonderful 'Permaculture" quarterly mag thru Aussie newsagents) I note that Australia's most eminent (probably) climate change & eco-crisis crusader, Tim Flannery, has changed his tune from his former sceptical rubbishing of Permaculture, to now promoting it as the way to go in Agriculture, quote from his November '08 article in CSIRO's public magazine ECOS (on sale in newsagents)...where he recommends "mixed farming systems like Permaculture". I say Tim, are you related to Jim and Carol Auld (a former tertiary student of mine) who I think live at Singleton NSW? They formerly lived at Wagga Wagga where I was teaching Systems Management at Riverina-Murray Inst. of Higher Ed (now Chas Sturt Uni)..which helped me get into Permaculture as the real, holistic systems management. If u are related to them, would you like to help me influence them towards Permaculture? cheers, Tom Toogood, PermaTeacher-Designer Permaculture Hunter (Hunter Valley/Newcastle area) phone 02-49207763 I agree with Tim Auld, that Monbiot’s faith in electric powered farm machinery is pie in the sky stuff…but at least he mentions Permaculture food forests, & that we have to be open to to that solution….and what a great service to the planet he’s doing, with his relentless public campaign to prove Peak Oil and climate change are urgent realities.
So lets all email him to “convert” him completely to the solution we know will work. I’m sure he’ll also get a host of emails from the very vigorous UK Permaculture & Transition town movements in the UK to educate him. (you can order their wonderful ‘Permaculture” quarterly mag thru Aussie newsagents)

I note that Australia’s most eminent (probably) climate change & eco-crisis crusader, Tim Flannery, has changed his tune from his former sceptical rubbishing of Permaculture, to now promoting it as the way to go in Agriculture, quote from his November ‘08 article in CSIRO’s public magazine ECOS (on sale in newsagents)…where he recommends “mixed farming systems like Permaculture”.

I say Tim, are you related to Jim and Carol Auld (a former tertiary student of mine) who I think live at Singleton NSW? They formerly lived at Wagga Wagga where I was teaching Systems Management at Riverina-Murray Inst. of Higher Ed (now Chas Sturt Uni)..which helped me get into Permaculture as the real, holistic systems management.

If u are related to them, would you like to help me influence them towards Permaculture?
cheers, Tom Toogood, PermaTeacher-Designer
Permaculture Hunter (Hunter Valley/Newcastle area)
phone 02-49207763

]]> By: Tim Auld http://permaculture.org.au/2009/11/17/if-nothing-else-save-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-38407 Tim Auld Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:12:13 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1998#comment-38407 I've got the greatest respect for George Monbiot, but his assessment that converting farm machinery to electric is the only (supposedly trivial) hurdle to saving industrial agriculture is mystifying. It's analogous to Kunstler's complaint that peoples' only concern is 'keeping the cars going'. It's perhaps the most obvious, but far from the only problem. Tilling on a large scale is fundamentally unsustainable, because it destroys soil. A shift to perennial systems is crucial. The modern diet is dominated by grains, but it does not have to be. A study must be made of how abundant lives have been made without cheap energy. Lo! That's permaculture! Tricky? It takes resources to establish sustainable growing systems, so let's stop making excuses and get to work while they are available. I really wish George would take a good, long critical look at permaculture, and then start rattling a few cages. Perhaps some educational facility could donate a PDC placement to him. I’ve got the greatest respect for George Monbiot, but his assessment that converting farm machinery to electric is the only (supposedly trivial) hurdle to saving industrial agriculture is mystifying. It’s analogous to Kunstler’s complaint that peoples’ only concern is ‘keeping the cars going’. It’s perhaps the most obvious, but far from the only problem.

Tilling on a large scale is fundamentally unsustainable, because it destroys soil. A shift to perennial systems is crucial. The modern diet is dominated by grains, but it does not have to be.

A study must be made of how abundant lives have been made without cheap energy. Lo! That’s permaculture! Tricky? It takes resources to establish sustainable growing systems, so let’s stop making excuses and get to work while they are available.

I really wish George would take a good, long critical look at permaculture, and then start rattling a few cages. Perhaps some educational facility could donate a PDC placement to him.

]]> By: Gareth Price http://permaculture.org.au/2009/11/17/if-nothing-else-save-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-38406 Gareth Price Wed, 18 Nov 2009 06:26:14 +0000 http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1998#comment-38406 Hi George, Is Wyn using permaculture guidlines? Monocultures? Keyline/contour technologies? Char-energy carbon cycles? Non till practices? And is high grade composting (suited to broadacre)not just organic swill being utilised? There are numerous life enhancing (sustainable? lots of baggage!)agricultural practices both old and new coming to our collective awreness which when I talk to farmers who on the path but still in the furrow so to speak. To comment on your main theme around the timing of peak oil and its 'deep impact' maybe..... "there is nothing to fear but fear itself." We all need shock treatment to be made aware of the immanent peaks in all our squandered resources, including coal, which may be partly powering Wyn's valient effort to his replace oil dependancy. We need continual prodding and 'nudging' to keep the mass behavioural changes on track. But we also need positives and a sustained release of green targets met, exceeded and those a work in progress. Our fear of the unkown futures ahead has to be tempered with the reality that it is an excitingif not the most challenging time to live through. The new mix of energy sources and its social impacts needs to be trialled in the local context to evolve into appropriate solutions for that community. Again this process needs nurturing not to be weakened bt fear. Sorry to whinge but I do agree with your trumpet call.... even though the dark clouds of peak oil need to be balanced the great innovations both practical and social that only occur in the crucible of impending crisis. Reagrds Gareth Hi George,

Is Wyn using permaculture guidlines? Monocultures? Keyline/contour technologies? Char-energy carbon cycles? Non till practices? And is high grade composting (suited to broadacre)not just organic swill being utilised? There are numerous life enhancing (sustainable? lots of baggage!)agricultural practices both old and new coming to our collective awreness which when I talk to farmers who on the path but still in the furrow so to speak.
To comment on your main theme around the timing of peak oil and its ‘deep impact’ maybe….. “there is nothing to fear but fear itself.” We all need shock treatment to be made aware of the immanent peaks in all our squandered resources, including coal, which may be partly powering Wyn’s valient effort to his replace oil dependancy. We need continual prodding and ‘nudging’ to keep the mass behavioural changes on track. But we also need positives and a sustained release of green targets met, exceeded and those a work in progress. Our fear of the unkown futures ahead has to be tempered with the reality that it is an excitingif not the most challenging time to live through.

The new mix of energy sources and its social impacts needs to be trialled in the local context to evolve into appropriate solutions for that community. Again this process needs nurturing not to be weakened bt fear.

Sorry to whinge but I do agree with your trumpet call….
even though the dark clouds of peak oil need to be balanced the great innovations both practical and social that only occur in the crucible of impending crisis.

Reagrds Gareth

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