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	<title>Comments on: Trading Places</title>
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		<title>By: Ralph</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2009/02/16/trading-places/#comment-29527</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=1103#comment-29527</guid>
		<description>Hi

Well, I am thrilled to read an industry leading country is taken on the challenges and invests and create renewable s&#039; and with such an incredible result: 15% of a non-carbon producing energy in a cold climate country, of high living standard and high population. 

Just think  what this 15% in actual physical energy represents. How much zap does our  21 Mill person population in OZ use?
  
Some 250 000 jobs created from a new  industry. I would love to have such job  possibilities here in OZ? 

Do I see this right:
looks like that the big ones  endeavour to reduce CO2 emissions, by enforcing an international &quot;currency&quot; system with obligation- power and the proviso that  one can reduce one&#039;s obligations and by buying points, or  one can make money by selling points. 
A penalty system with off set facilities and free trading market  flair. 

Kind of clever. So the problem seems the  effect  free trading has on a (penalty system )carbon points.  

The incentive to reduce co2 emission is to  reduce  CO2 obligation and to make money,  Ergo:   turning the once obligation (demand) for   carbon points into surplus (supply)of points, and cash them in. 

But the more we conserve energy and the more we create  energy   from renewable sources, the more points are for sale. The more points are for sale  the lower their value. So buying points is cheaper than investing in alternative energy, thus reducing the penalty effect of the points.

The Spiegel article indicates, the  challenge is to regulate the VALUE these CARBON BUGS, rather than leaving it up to  Supply and Demand forces. 

The result being :
The CO2 readings in Europe did not reduce, yet. 
May be this has  many reasons. Can we know them all?  e.g. increase in demand on energy due to population growth or industrialisation, the discussed low value of carbon bugs, concessions for developing countries .... 
hey, it would be nice to think that the efforts  slowed down an Co2 emission increase!

The investment may  cash in when fossil fuels are scares or the dependence on them will become oppressive.

Germany  use 300mm in ceilings and 200mm thick wall insulation materials in renovations and new homes and are replacing double panel windows in favour of triple glass panelled windows, for many years now. Some say they are up &#039;in the front&#039; in  the solar industry. There a low to nil&#039; energy homes that heat up on body temperature and lights with energy recovery systems for spend air and waste water. Can recovering the warmth from your toilet water reduce the value of  carbon points? Should we not have recovered the energy from there? 

The setting is international and there are many countries in the same &quot;boat&quot; , some paddle faster and others paddle less, but all acknowledging to be in the same boat. There is a lot of paddling into the right direction going on, allowing for new ways to to be commercial utilised on a great scale. 

We have new clean developments on the market because of the big players working the carbon point system. It will be interesting to see, how the point system can stay a driving force? 

keep up the spirit
reg.
Ralph</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi</p>
<p>Well, I am thrilled to read an industry leading country is taken on the challenges and invests and create renewable s&#8217; and with such an incredible result: 15% of a non-carbon producing energy in a cold climate country, of high living standard and high population. </p>
<p>Just think  what this 15% in actual physical energy represents. How much zap does our  21 Mill person population in OZ use?</p>
<p>Some 250 000 jobs created from a new  industry. I would love to have such job  possibilities here in OZ? </p>
<p>Do I see this right:<br />
looks like that the big ones  endeavour to reduce CO2 emissions, by enforcing an international &#8220;currency&#8221; system with obligation- power and the proviso that  one can reduce one&#8217;s obligations and by buying points, or  one can make money by selling points.<br />
A penalty system with off set facilities and free trading market  flair. </p>
<p>Kind of clever. So the problem seems the  effect  free trading has on a (penalty system )carbon points.  </p>
<p>The incentive to reduce co2 emission is to  reduce  CO2 obligation and to make money,  Ergo:   turning the once obligation (demand) for   carbon points into surplus (supply)of points, and cash them in. </p>
<p>But the more we conserve energy and the more we create  energy   from renewable sources, the more points are for sale. The more points are for sale  the lower their value. So buying points is cheaper than investing in alternative energy, thus reducing the penalty effect of the points.</p>
<p>The Spiegel article indicates, the  challenge is to regulate the VALUE these CARBON BUGS, rather than leaving it up to  Supply and Demand forces. </p>
<p>The result being :<br />
The CO2 readings in Europe did not reduce, yet.<br />
May be this has  many reasons. Can we know them all?  e.g. increase in demand on energy due to population growth or industrialisation, the discussed low value of carbon bugs, concessions for developing countries &#8230;.<br />
hey, it would be nice to think that the efforts  slowed down an Co2 emission increase!</p>
<p>The investment may  cash in when fossil fuels are scares or the dependence on them will become oppressive.</p>
<p>Germany  use 300mm in ceilings and 200mm thick wall insulation materials in renovations and new homes and are replacing double panel windows in favour of triple glass panelled windows, for many years now. Some say they are up &#8216;in the front&#8217; in  the solar industry. There a low to nil&#8217; energy homes that heat up on body temperature and lights with energy recovery systems for spend air and waste water. Can recovering the warmth from your toilet water reduce the value of  carbon points? Should we not have recovered the energy from there? </p>
<p>The setting is international and there are many countries in the same &#8220;boat&#8221; , some paddle faster and others paddle less, but all acknowledging to be in the same boat. There is a lot of paddling into the right direction going on, allowing for new ways to to be commercial utilised on a great scale. </p>
<p>We have new clean developments on the market because of the big players working the carbon point system. It will be interesting to see, how the point system can stay a driving force? </p>
<p>keep up the spirit<br />
reg.<br />
Ralph</p>
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