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	<title>Comments on: The Flaw of Western Economies</title>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/04/the-flaw-of-western-economies/#comment-41184</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=835#comment-41184</guid>
		<description>What a great read, but I&#039;m afraid some people are naturally evil and greedy, poor George and his food growing friends will just become slaves, growing and serving for some local fat thug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a great read, but I&#8217;m afraid some people are naturally evil and greedy, poor George and his food growing friends will just become slaves, growing and serving for some local fat thug.</p>
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		<title>By: paul maget</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/04/the-flaw-of-western-economies/#comment-29363</link>
		<dc:creator>paul maget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=835#comment-29363</guid>
		<description>Too simplistic with gaping holes in logic, execution and fundamental resource allocation. Good for the romance of environmental spiritualism but of little pragmatic value. Change one must be reduced population so that restructuring the global economy to sustainability is not met with conflagration of multiple socio/poli/economic disasters and full scale international war. 

Reduction of global population by approximately 50%,commensurate with technological advancement supporting quality of lifestyle and integration of sustainability as a spiritual component of the major religions of the world are the fundamental restructurings required for long term human survival. 

Keep at it...

Paul</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too simplistic with gaping holes in logic, execution and fundamental resource allocation. Good for the romance of environmental spiritualism but of little pragmatic value. Change one must be reduced population so that restructuring the global economy to sustainability is not met with conflagration of multiple socio/poli/economic disasters and full scale international war. </p>
<p>Reduction of global population by approximately 50%,commensurate with technological advancement supporting quality of lifestyle and integration of sustainability as a spiritual component of the major religions of the world are the fundamental restructurings required for long term human survival. </p>
<p>Keep at it&#8230;</p>
<p>Paul</p>
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		<title>By: Stefan Pasti</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/04/the-flaw-of-western-economies/#comment-28786</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan Pasti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 02:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=835#comment-28786</guid>
		<description>This is a very good article for educating people about the “big picture”—and the everyday efforts that contribute to one kind of “big picture”, or another (an article which I just now accessed, by discovering it on the Energy Bulletin website).

The comments I would like to direct to the writer Marcin Gerwin (and others who read the replies here) are as follows:

1)  Among the many points of agreement I have with the tone and substance of this article is the statement:  “To create sustainable local economies we should start with ethics”.  On this subject, I would like to point out something which I believe is one of the great tragedies of our times.  Consider the following quotation:  “The enduring religions at their best contain the distilled wisdom of the human race”  (Huston Smith).  I agree with this statement, and in many of the writings I have created as part of building The Interfaith Peacebuilding and Community Revitalization (IPCR) Initiative, I have tried to identify ways of integrating such “distilled wisdom” into the everyday circumstances of community life.

Yes, I do understand that many people have—unfortunately—learned to mistakenly equate flaws in human nature with the practical wisdom associated with religious and spiritual traditions… but let us be careful about what we are doing… for this kind of misguided thinking may be one of the great tragedies of our time.  Consider the following [excerpted from “The Ten Most Difficult Challenges of Our Times” (link on the homepage of the IPCR Initiative or (http://ipcri.net/images/7-Ten-Point-Assessment-excerpt.pdf)]:

“…such treasured wisdom contains teachings which inspire and encourage people to

a) appreciate truth, virtue, love, and peace—and live disciplined lives for the purpose of adhering to truth, cultivating virtue and love, and maintaining the pathways to enduring peace
b) sacrifice personal desires for the greater good of the whole
c) find contentment and quality of life while consuming less material goods and ecological services
d) prefer peacebuilding which supports and actualizes mutually beneficial understandings, forgiveness, and reconciliation—and which abstains from violent conflict resolution—as a way of bringing cycles of violence to an end
e) use resources carefully, so that there is surplus available for emergency assistance
f) support community life and cultural traditions which ‘… bring to the fore what is often hidden: how many good people there are, how many ways there are to do good, and how much happiness comes to those who extend help, as well as to those who receive it.’”

I believe there are still many people in the world who appreciate that the above testimony can be true about the best teachings of religious and spiritual traditions.  And surely, surely, there are many people who need to believe this can be true.  Because it is almost certain that an exponential increase in compassion for our fellow human beings will need to become an essential and critical element of a truly comprehensive response to the challenges of our times.   In such circumstances, we cannot afford to exclude from our “tool box” the time-tested sources which have helped people learn compassion over many centuries.  Instead, we need to learn how to cultivate the time-tested sources so that the sources yield the treasured wisdom.  Those who have had a garden can “picture to themselves” what I mean.

2)  My other comment is about modern participatory democracy.  I consider myself to be an advocate for Community Visioning Initiatives.  Community Visioning Initiatives can provide a very useful model for modern participatory democracy.  Consider the following:  “In 1984, the non-profit organization Chattanooga Venture [Chattanooga, Tennessee (USA)] organized a Community Visioning Initiative that attracted more than 1,700 participants, and produced 40 community goals—which resulted in the implementation of 223 projects and programs, the creation of 1,300 permanent jobs, and a total financial investment of 793 million dollars”. (For source references, see p. 9 of the “1000Communities2” proposal).

There is much that can be done to develop the potential of Community Visioning Initiatives as a way of generating practical responses to the challenges of our times.  In June, 2008 I completed a 161 page proposal titled “1000Communities2” (“1000CommunitiesSquared”), which I believe can help readers appreciate the potential of Community Visioning Initiatives.  There are three short essays describing the “1000Communities2” proposal in the Fall, 2008 issue of The IPCR Journal/Newsletter.  There is also an “Educational Materials Outreach Package” associated with the “1000Communities2” proposal which can be accessed at the bottom of the IPCR Initiative homepage (www.ipcri.net).  I encourage readers to access these materials, and the 161 page proposal, and see if they might be useful to their efforts.  In light of the urgent need to increase collaboration between diverse communities of people, anyone may access all IPCR documents for free.


Thank you very much, Marcin Gerwin, for an excellent piece of writing, which both touches on some of the deep flaws in mainstream thinking, and brings to light many of the elements needed to create healthy local and regional economies.


With Kind Regards and Best Wishes,

Stefan Pasti, Founder and Outreach Coordinator
The IPCR Initiative</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very good article for educating people about the “big picture”—and the everyday efforts that contribute to one kind of “big picture”, or another (an article which I just now accessed, by discovering it on the Energy Bulletin website).</p>
<p>The comments I would like to direct to the writer Marcin Gerwin (and others who read the replies here) are as follows:</p>
<p>1)  Among the many points of agreement I have with the tone and substance of this article is the statement:  “To create sustainable local economies we should start with ethics”.  On this subject, I would like to point out something which I believe is one of the great tragedies of our times.  Consider the following quotation:  “The enduring religions at their best contain the distilled wisdom of the human race”  (Huston Smith).  I agree with this statement, and in many of the writings I have created as part of building The Interfaith Peacebuilding and Community Revitalization (IPCR) Initiative, I have tried to identify ways of integrating such “distilled wisdom” into the everyday circumstances of community life.</p>
<p>Yes, I do understand that many people have—unfortunately—learned to mistakenly equate flaws in human nature with the practical wisdom associated with religious and spiritual traditions… but let us be careful about what we are doing… for this kind of misguided thinking may be one of the great tragedies of our time.  Consider the following [excerpted from “The Ten Most Difficult Challenges of Our Times” (link on the homepage of the IPCR Initiative or (<a href="http://ipcri.net/images/7-Ten-Point-Assessment-excerpt.pdf)" rel="nofollow">http://ipcri.net/images/7-Ten-Point-Assessment-excerpt.pdf)</a>:</p>
<p>“…such treasured wisdom contains teachings which inspire and encourage people to</p>
<p>a) appreciate truth, virtue, love, and peace—and live disciplined lives for the purpose of adhering to truth, cultivating virtue and love, and maintaining the pathways to enduring peace<br />
b) sacrifice personal desires for the greater good of the whole<br />
c) find contentment and quality of life while consuming less material goods and ecological services<br />
d) prefer peacebuilding which supports and actualizes mutually beneficial understandings, forgiveness, and reconciliation—and which abstains from violent conflict resolution—as a way of bringing cycles of violence to an end<br />
e) use resources carefully, so that there is surplus available for emergency assistance<br />
f) support community life and cultural traditions which ‘… bring to the fore what is often hidden: how many good people there are, how many ways there are to do good, and how much happiness comes to those who extend help, as well as to those who receive it.’”</p>
<p>I believe there are still many people in the world who appreciate that the above testimony can be true about the best teachings of religious and spiritual traditions.  And surely, surely, there are many people who need to believe this can be true.  Because it is almost certain that an exponential increase in compassion for our fellow human beings will need to become an essential and critical element of a truly comprehensive response to the challenges of our times.   In such circumstances, we cannot afford to exclude from our “tool box” the time-tested sources which have helped people learn compassion over many centuries.  Instead, we need to learn how to cultivate the time-tested sources so that the sources yield the treasured wisdom.  Those who have had a garden can “picture to themselves” what I mean.</p>
<p>2)  My other comment is about modern participatory democracy.  I consider myself to be an advocate for Community Visioning Initiatives.  Community Visioning Initiatives can provide a very useful model for modern participatory democracy.  Consider the following:  “In 1984, the non-profit organization Chattanooga Venture [Chattanooga, Tennessee (USA)] organized a Community Visioning Initiative that attracted more than 1,700 participants, and produced 40 community goals—which resulted in the implementation of 223 projects and programs, the creation of 1,300 permanent jobs, and a total financial investment of 793 million dollars”. (For source references, see p. 9 of the “1000Communities2” proposal).</p>
<p>There is much that can be done to develop the potential of Community Visioning Initiatives as a way of generating practical responses to the challenges of our times.  In June, 2008 I completed a 161 page proposal titled “1000Communities2” (“1000CommunitiesSquared”), which I believe can help readers appreciate the potential of Community Visioning Initiatives.  There are three short essays describing the “1000Communities2” proposal in the Fall, 2008 issue of The IPCR Journal/Newsletter.  There is also an “Educational Materials Outreach Package” associated with the “1000Communities2” proposal which can be accessed at the bottom of the IPCR Initiative homepage (www.ipcri.net).  I encourage readers to access these materials, and the 161 page proposal, and see if they might be useful to their efforts.  In light of the urgent need to increase collaboration between diverse communities of people, anyone may access all IPCR documents for free.</p>
<p>Thank you very much, Marcin Gerwin, for an excellent piece of writing, which both touches on some of the deep flaws in mainstream thinking, and brings to light many of the elements needed to create healthy local and regional economies.</p>
<p>With Kind Regards and Best Wishes,</p>
<p>Stefan Pasti, Founder and Outreach Coordinator<br />
The IPCR Initiative</p>
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		<title>By: Jan Steinman</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/04/the-flaw-of-western-economies/#comment-28783</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Steinman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=835#comment-28783</guid>
		<description>Fascinating article!

And yet, George&#039;s fatal flaw is revealed in the first sentence: &lt;i&gt;&quot;Let’s imagine a green and responsible consumer.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

For some time now, I have found it impossible to imagine a green consumer. &quot;Green&quot; and &quot;consumer&quot; don&#039;t belong in the same sentence!

Possibly the most revolutionary thing each of us can do is to produce our own food and energy. As George discovers, food is the yoke that keeps us in jobs, even if they are jobs we perceive as &quot;green&quot; and enjoyable.

But George had a second flaw in his &quot;green consumerism:&quot; he only had &lt;i&gt;one&lt;/i&gt; job!

Having a single job, or even a single career, is &lt;b&gt;fiscal monoculture.&lt;/b&gt; Just as agricultural monoculture is subject to catastrophic disruptions, so is fiscal monoculture.

At EcoReality, we strive to have multiple, small revenue streams, so that if any one or even two of them go away, we still are able to buy toilet paper and other essentials we don&#039;t grow or harvest.

So to all the Georges of the world, who perhaps smugly think they&#039;re doing the planet good -- thank you for your concienciousness, but for heaven&#039;s sake, &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;go out and grow some food!&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating article!</p>
<p>And yet, George&#8217;s fatal flaw is revealed in the first sentence: <i>&#8220;Let’s imagine a green and responsible consumer.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>For some time now, I have found it impossible to imagine a green consumer. &#8220;Green&#8221; and &#8220;consumer&#8221; don&#8217;t belong in the same sentence!</p>
<p>Possibly the most revolutionary thing each of us can do is to produce our own food and energy. As George discovers, food is the yoke that keeps us in jobs, even if they are jobs we perceive as &#8220;green&#8221; and enjoyable.</p>
<p>But George had a second flaw in his &#8220;green consumerism:&#8221; he only had <i>one</i> job!</p>
<p>Having a single job, or even a single career, is <b>fiscal monoculture.</b> Just as agricultural monoculture is subject to catastrophic disruptions, so is fiscal monoculture.</p>
<p>At EcoReality, we strive to have multiple, small revenue streams, so that if any one or even two of them go away, we still are able to buy toilet paper and other essentials we don&#8217;t grow or harvest.</p>
<p>So to all the Georges of the world, who perhaps smugly think they&#8217;re doing the planet good &#8212; thank you for your concienciousness, but for heaven&#8217;s sake, <b><i>go out and grow some food!</i></b></p>
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		<title>By: Bhadresh</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/04/the-flaw-of-western-economies/#comment-28619</link>
		<dc:creator>Bhadresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 03:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=835#comment-28619</guid>
		<description>Thank you, I have been thinking this for few days. Yesterday night and today early morning I was day dreaming ...I was imagining what if we can have democracy and administration that we don&#039;t have to be afraid of.

Your vision, thoughts and ideas were sort of answers to my prayers. I am a son of farmer of a small indian village. My toddlers life N rural life style during my father&#039;s time, the life was like that of George. Now as an engineer working for an American MNC at Singapore, I have always felt lifestyle as good human being to this planet is going backwards at very fast rate. 

I sincerely hope that your thoughts and ideas reach more and more people and one day in future we will all be back with nature again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, I have been thinking this for few days. Yesterday night and today early morning I was day dreaming &#8230;I was imagining what if we can have democracy and administration that we don&#8217;t have to be afraid of.</p>
<p>Your vision, thoughts and ideas were sort of answers to my prayers. I am a son of farmer of a small indian village. My toddlers life N rural life style during my father&#8217;s time, the life was like that of George. Now as an engineer working for an American MNC at Singapore, I have always felt lifestyle as good human being to this planet is going backwards at very fast rate. </p>
<p>I sincerely hope that your thoughts and ideas reach more and more people and one day in future we will all be back with nature again.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris T. Cousins</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/04/the-flaw-of-western-economies/#comment-27826</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris T. Cousins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 03:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=835#comment-27826</guid>
		<description>Just the right kind of writing that will inspire many to continue in the direction of solving local problems, but more people need to come together to start the process meeting face to face more often. Traditional village life does this. Let&#039;s all make an effort.

Chidu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just the right kind of writing that will inspire many to continue in the direction of solving local problems, but more people need to come together to start the process meeting face to face more often. Traditional village life does this. Let&#8217;s all make an effort.</p>
<p>Chidu</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/04/the-flaw-of-western-economies/#comment-27797</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=835#comment-27797</guid>
		<description>Great article! Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article! Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Sava Chankov</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/04/the-flaw-of-western-economies/#comment-27699</link>
		<dc:creator>Sava Chankov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=835#comment-27699</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed the article, however I want to elaborate on this:

&quot;... in the world where resources are scarce and populations climb fast it [farming] is a time-tested solution&quot;.

As population grows the available farmland per person decreases. This can lead to tensions between farmers that may be resolved through a civil war (extreme example: Rwanda). Farmers, especially those working without lot of machinery, tend to have a bigger offspring than people living in the cities because children provide additional working hands for them. 

I think that for a society (as well as economy) to become truly sustainable it&#039;s crucial that people keep their numbers in correspondence with natural resources available in their region. Otherwise population control will be left to war, diseases and famine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed the article, however I want to elaborate on this:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; in the world where resources are scarce and populations climb fast it [farming] is a time-tested solution&#8221;.</p>
<p>As population grows the available farmland per person decreases. This can lead to tensions between farmers that may be resolved through a civil war (extreme example: Rwanda). Farmers, especially those working without lot of machinery, tend to have a bigger offspring than people living in the cities because children provide additional working hands for them. </p>
<p>I think that for a society (as well as economy) to become truly sustainable it&#8217;s crucial that people keep their numbers in correspondence with natural resources available in their region. Otherwise population control will be left to war, diseases and famine.</p>
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		<title>By: Dylan</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/04/the-flaw-of-western-economies/#comment-27693</link>
		<dc:creator>Dylan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 01:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=835#comment-27693</guid>
		<description>Wonderful article.  Thank you !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful article.  Thank you !</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Stowasser</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/11/04/the-flaw-of-western-economies/#comment-27676</link>
		<dc:creator>Zachary Stowasser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=835#comment-27676</guid>
		<description>Good Article of visioning the future... 

Guerilla gardening and taking over unused land to create food forests is an investment for the future and will create a foundation of sustainability for generations to come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Article of visioning the future&#8230; </p>
<p>Guerilla gardening and taking over unused land to create food forests is an investment for the future and will create a foundation of sustainability for generations to come.</p>
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