<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Which Came First - Pests, or Pesticides?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/</link>
	<description>Changing the world one site at a time</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Casey</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/comment-page-1/#comment-27471</link>
		<dc:creator>Casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-27471</guid>
		<description>Good article.  It makes sense that predator bugs will die off along with the pests, creating a pest-pesticide proliferation race.  But it seems unfair to indict all of industrial agriculture in totality on this basis.  In economic terms alone, we just could not feed everyone without doing large-scale monocultures.  Border crops are a good innovation but they only serve to protect the monoculture.  I don't see genetic engineering a a big boogeyman either.  It is nothing more than an accelerated way to do the same traditional crop breeding we've done for millenia.  In fact, if employed intelligently, I think genetic engineering could even be used to eliminate pesticides completely and safely, and permit growth of monocultures capable of supporting a balanced pest/predator ecology without also having to tolerate crop productivity losses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article.  It makes sense that predator bugs will die off along with the pests, creating a pest-pesticide proliferation race.  But it seems unfair to indict all of industrial agriculture in totality on this basis.  In economic terms alone, we just could not feed everyone without doing large-scale monocultures.  Border crops are a good innovation but they only serve to protect the monoculture.  I don&#8217;t see genetic engineering a a big boogeyman either.  It is nothing more than an accelerated way to do the same traditional crop breeding we&#8217;ve done for millenia.  In fact, if employed intelligently, I think genetic engineering could even be used to eliminate pesticides completely and safely, and permit growth of monocultures capable of supporting a balanced pest/predator ecology without also having to tolerate crop productivity losses.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/comment-page-1/#comment-27469</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-27469</guid>
		<description>Generally, this is a well thought-out account, but I think it has a few problems.  First, the idea that pests only go to plants that are otherwise unhealthy is untrue.  If you leave the world of agriculture, you can see examples of this everywhere - think of the tree species decimated by invasive pests (elms being a great example).  Sometimes, pests will preferentially go to an unhealthy plant (possibly because it is more "apparent" to the pests due to emission of volatile chemicals), but not as a rule.

Second, most pesticides don't actually harm the plants - they usually (nowadays in developed countries at least) are very target-specific.  This isn't to say they aren't bad for the environment - they are - but not usually for the plants.  

Finally, while intercropping and other uses of &#62;1 plant to reduce pest pressure have some effect on pest densities (usually because its harder for a pest to see a row of its host than a vast field), there is actually relatively little support that this increases the effectivity of beneficial insects.  

Thus, I think your analysis is a bit simplistic, if a good intro for laymen.  But importantly, you also don't give any good solutions.  Where is the discussion about biological control?  About breeding resistant crops?  About, dare I say it, the potential of transgenic crops to reduce pesticide use (sure it has its problems, but it can certainly reduce pesticide application)?

All this aside, good post.  I'm glad to see this kind of thinking in blogs, with at least some science behind it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generally, this is a well thought-out account, but I think it has a few problems.  First, the idea that pests only go to plants that are otherwise unhealthy is untrue.  If you leave the world of agriculture, you can see examples of this everywhere - think of the tree species decimated by invasive pests (elms being a great example).  Sometimes, pests will preferentially go to an unhealthy plant (possibly because it is more &#8220;apparent&#8221; to the pests due to emission of volatile chemicals), but not as a rule.</p>
<p>Second, most pesticides don&#8217;t actually harm the plants - they usually (nowadays in developed countries at least) are very target-specific.  This isn&#8217;t to say they aren&#8217;t bad for the environment - they are - but not usually for the plants.  </p>
<p>Finally, while intercropping and other uses of &gt;1 plant to reduce pest pressure have some effect on pest densities (usually because its harder for a pest to see a row of its host than a vast field), there is actually relatively little support that this increases the effectivity of beneficial insects.  </p>
<p>Thus, I think your analysis is a bit simplistic, if a good intro for laymen.  But importantly, you also don&#8217;t give any good solutions.  Where is the discussion about biological control?  About breeding resistant crops?  About, dare I say it, the potential of transgenic crops to reduce pesticide use (sure it has its problems, but it can certainly reduce pesticide application)?</p>
<p>All this aside, good post.  I&#8217;m glad to see this kind of thinking in blogs, with at least some science behind it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lamare</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/comment-page-1/#comment-27449</link>
		<dc:creator>lamare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-27449</guid>
		<description>I like the twist at the end...nicely done Graig</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the twist at the end&#8230;nicely done Graig</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robyn Williamson</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/comment-page-1/#comment-26580</link>
		<dc:creator>Robyn Williamson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 08:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-26580</guid>
		<description>A superb account of how modern agriculture created "pests" in the same way that it created "weeds".  This has given rise to the prevailing wisdom (read: stupidity) that "weeds" are "anything growing in a cotton, rice, corn, soyabean, canola or wheat field that is not cotton, rice, corn, soyabean, canola or wheat".

Check out http://www.weedinfo.com.au/bk_weedsosea.html  Check out the list of 2,000 species of so-called "weeds" where you will find scores of edible and otherwise useful plant species tarnished with the label of weed, ironically Brassica x napus (canola)  but also ginger (Zingiber officinalis), coriander (Coriandrum sativum) and garlic (Allium sativum), 3 of my favourite foods.  I was amazed to open the sample page (p.241) and see pumpkin, another one of my favourites.  Why is pumpkin classified as a weed?  Because it is "occasionally found naturalised in rubbish dumps or along roadsides".  I think the most amusing "weed" I found on the list though is Acacia pycnantha, the floral emblem of Australia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A superb account of how modern agriculture created &#8220;pests&#8221; in the same way that it created &#8220;weeds&#8221;.  This has given rise to the prevailing wisdom (read: stupidity) that &#8220;weeds&#8221; are &#8220;anything growing in a cotton, rice, corn, soyabean, canola or wheat field that is not cotton, rice, corn, soyabean, canola or wheat&#8221;.</p>
<p>Check out <a href="http://www.weedinfo.com.au/bk_weedsosea.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.weedinfo.com.au/bk_weedsosea.html</a>  Check out the list of 2,000 species of so-called &#8220;weeds&#8221; where you will find scores of edible and otherwise useful plant species tarnished with the label of weed, ironically Brassica x napus (canola)  but also ginger (Zingiber officinalis), coriander (Coriandrum sativum) and garlic (Allium sativum), 3 of my favourite foods.  I was amazed to open the sample page (p.241) and see pumpkin, another one of my favourites.  Why is pumpkin classified as a weed?  Because it is &#8220;occasionally found naturalised in rubbish dumps or along roadsides&#8221;.  I think the most amusing &#8220;weed&#8221; I found on the list though is Acacia pycnantha, the floral emblem of Australia.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/comment-page-1/#comment-25797</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-25797</guid>
		<description>Great article Craig. Monsanto are not going to like you. In fact if you check out their webpage at http://www.monsanto.com.au/ and look at their video clip you'll see that the war of disinformation has begun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article Craig. Monsanto are not going to like you. In fact if you check out their webpage at <a href="http://www.monsanto.com.au/" rel="nofollow">http://www.monsanto.com.au/</a> and look at their video clip you&#8217;ll see that the war of disinformation has begun.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nigel Muecke</title>
		<link>http://permaculture.org.au/2008/08/12/which-came-first-pests-or-pesticides/comment-page-1/#comment-25791</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Muecke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://permaculture.org.au/?p=544#comment-25791</guid>
		<description>I am pleased to invite you to be a guest speaker or participant at the Love Earth Gathering on Saturday, 4 October 2008.

The event organisers are concerned members of the community who have decided to hold a gathering to raise awareness about the role of animal agriculture in climate change. The whole event is completely non profit and organised by volunteers from throughout the community. 

According to the Australian Government website, www.climatechange.gov.au/agriculture: “Greenhouse gas emissions from agricultural production represented approximately 16% of total national emissions in 2005…”

Due to the urgent need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and avert a climate catastrophe, the only immediate and effective solution is to reduce livestock numbers. A recent British study showed that  3 days no meat would have the same positive effect on reducing greenhouse gas emissions as replacing all household appliances, such as fridges, freezers, dishwashers and washing machines with energy efficient ones, insulating walls, installing double glazing, energy efficient boilers, and thermostats.

Individuals can make a difference.  Take Action Against Climate Change

We are looking for speakers to inspire people to reduce their consumption of animal products, in order to:
* Reduce their carbon footprint
* Save water
* Reconnect with our planet 
* Help protect wildlife and ecosystems
* Support local farmers and community

This will be a family-oriented day, with guest speakers, vegetarian food available, cooking classes, information stands and activities for children. We are encouraging people to ride their bikes or take public transport to the event.

As 4 October is World Animal Day, there will be a minute’s silence at 11am for the animals.

Event Details:
Love Earth Gathering
Esplanade Reserve Perth (near the Convention Centre)
Sat 4 Oct 2008
10am - 4pm

I would appreciate an RSVP by 5 September for organising. Earlier if possible. If you have any questions or comments, please do not hesitate to contact me on 0892447261 or 0447761265.

Yours sincerely,

Nigel Muecke
www.perthlovesearth.com       www.loveearthgathering.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am pleased to invite you to be a guest speaker or participant at the Love Earth Gathering on Saturday, 4 October 2008.</p>
<p>The event organisers are concerned members of the community who have decided to hold a gathering to raise awareness about the role of animal agriculture in climate change. The whole event is completely non profit and organised by volunteers from throughout the community. </p>
<p>According to the Australian Government website, <a href="http://www.climatechange.gov.au/agriculture" rel="nofollow">http://www.climatechange.gov.au/agriculture</a>: “Greenhouse gas emissions from agricultural production represented approximately 16% of total national emissions in 2005…”</p>
<p>Due to the urgent need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and avert a climate catastrophe, the only immediate and effective solution is to reduce livestock numbers. A recent British study showed that  3 days no meat would have the same positive effect on reducing greenhouse gas emissions as replacing all household appliances, such as fridges, freezers, dishwashers and washing machines with energy efficient ones, insulating walls, installing double glazing, energy efficient boilers, and thermostats.</p>
<p>Individuals can make a difference.  Take Action Against Climate Change</p>
<p>We are looking for speakers to inspire people to reduce their consumption of animal products, in order to:<br />
* Reduce their carbon footprint<br />
* Save water<br />
* Reconnect with our planet<br />
* Help protect wildlife and ecosystems<br />
* Support local farmers and community</p>
<p>This will be a family-oriented day, with guest speakers, vegetarian food available, cooking classes, information stands and activities for children. We are encouraging people to ride their bikes or take public transport to the event.</p>
<p>As 4 October is World Animal Day, there will be a minute’s silence at 11am for the animals.</p>
<p>Event Details:<br />
Love Earth Gathering<br />
Esplanade Reserve Perth (near the Convention Centre)<br />
Sat 4 Oct 2008<br />
10am - 4pm</p>
<p>I would appreciate an RSVP by 5 September for organising. Earlier if possible. If you have any questions or comments, please do not hesitate to contact me on 0892447261 or 0447761265.</p>
<p>Yours sincerely,</p>
<p>Nigel Muecke<br />
<a href="http://www.perthlovesearth.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.perthlovesearth.com</a>       <a href="http://www.loveearthgathering.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.loveearthgathering.com</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
